June 2013 - 340th month in a row of above average temps

redrumloa said:
I for one look forward to paying generously for carbon credits.
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Wouldn't a good Libertarian think that ALL costs involved in a product should be covered up front in the original price? This better determines the true cost and the marketability. Overall, the environmental harm from products falls as taxes on all of us and user charges don't fully account for this.

Imagine the price of oil if we include the environmental harm. Local issues are environmental pollution and damage to health. Larger issues are the costs of things like the Gulf and Alaska clean up. For example, Exxon hasn't paid for the damages of the Valdez meaning you and I have paid through taxes or worse, gov borrowing. And imagine the price of oil if we include the coups and wars we engage in the middle-east. Instead we support dictators and terrorists, which are harmful to human rights in their own nations and hate the USA anyway.

Instead we have a system where gas tax is minor that doesn't even fully cover all the roads, let alone environmental degradation. Instead the Gov gives billions in tax credits and subsidies to a product that is not only mature but enjoys the largest $ profits in the history of the world. When we fill up at the pump we're not paying the true costs of the product.

Unfortunately, Govs have structured oil in such a way the true costs are hidden and unaccountable. Sometimes I'm with you on the Libertarian demands that everything should be accounted for and paid up front in the price. That way we'd know the true cost of products we use within our lives. Also, we could more easily compare other energies, such as renewables.
 
faethor said:
Wouldn't a good Libertarian think that ALL costs involved in a product should be covered up front in the original price? This better determines the true cost and the marketability. Overall, the environmental harm from products falls as taxes on all of us and user charges don't fully account for this.

Imagine the price of oil if we include the environmental harm. Local issues are environmental pollution and damage to health. Larger issues are the costs of things like the Gulf and Alaska clean up. For example, Exxon hasn't paid for the damages of the Valdez meaning you and I have paid through taxes or worse, gov borrowing. And imagine the price of oil if we include the coups and wars we engage in the middle-east. Instead we support dictators and terrorists, which are harmful to human rights in their own nations and hate the USA anyway.

Instead we have a system where gas tax is minor that doesn't even fully cover all the roads, let alone environmental degradation. Instead the Gov gives billions in tax credits and subsidies to a product that is not only mature but enjoys the largest $ profits in the history of the world. When we fill up at the pump we're not paying the true costs of the product.

Unfortunately, Govs have structured oil in such a way the true costs are hidden and unaccountable. Sometimes I'm with you on the Libertarian demands that everything should be accounted for and paid up front in the price. That way we'd know the true cost of products we use within our lives. Also, we could more easily compare other energies, such as renewables.
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turns out that big train derailment and subsequent fire we just had is another of those "taxes". the locals used water cuz that's what they had. apparently the railway doesn't have a plan to deal with things like that and its up to us locals to buy our own chem foam to put out the fires caused when their stuff derails and explodes... its my understanding a similar "plan" is in place to deal with the toxic mess as well...
 
July 22, 2013, First time recorded by man - North Pole becomes a lake.
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