Middle East Aid flotilla attacked by gunships-several dead.

Of course they'll get away with it; they always do.
They remind me of "Mars attacks," forever murdering people and claiming peace.
 
Israeli spokesman on my telly is using the old Bush tactic; mention "Al Qaeda," "Terrorism," etc.

Murdering bastards.
 
Robert said:
Of course they'll get away with it; they always do.
They remind me of "Mars attacks," forever murdering people and claiming peace.
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but they aren't funny like the Martians

ACK ACK ACK!
 
I am amazed. I checked today on the web and it's pretty much on everyone's front page. I don't know if that reflects broadcast but it's very significant. I guess they killed enough people that it is hard for the press to ignore. The death toll hasn't been finalized yet but it seem to have been revised up for now.

It's hard to know if they intended to make an example of this flotilla or if this was a botched operation but it coincides with Netanyahu's tour of North America, and though he already met with our slithering PM Harper (who gave them a pass with the usual - we regret the deaths - bullsh!t. Oh the poor suffering Israelis, so wracked with regret yet forced to kill and regret, kill and regret, time and time again) but the Obama meeting is canceled. Whether it's the White House saying F.U. or whether it's Bibi (anticipating a chilly reception) copping out I can't say but it's significant.

The more Israel acts out while there is a non receptive backside on the oval office the better it will be for the US when they finally get around to putting that rogue state back in it's proper place. The tail should NOT wag the dog.
 
I would certainly agree with you on this Fluffy, Israel totally misplayed this. Here are what I see as the two main reasons why this will change middle East politics for some time:
1) This was a Turkish ship and most of the dead appear to be Turks (although I'm not sure if they are Cypriot Turks or main land Turks). The Turkish people have never loved Israel but the Turkish government was perhaps the closest thing Israel had to an ally in the region. You can pretty much kiss that special relationship good buy and we can only expect to see more serious tension between Israel and Turkey. This may also force the US to choose one of the two sides here and the US will have to think very carefully. Turkey is perhaps strategically more important (especially in the short term as they may play a significant role in keeping nuclear weapons out of Iran). But Turkey is also becoming a bigger power as they are now entering the nuclear enrichment business and are building nuclear reactors as well. Don't be surprised if we see Turkey one day developing a nuclear bomb, although I do hope that never happens.

2) This attack occurred in international waters. It's one thing to board a ship entering your own waters, but boarding a ship some 70 miles off the coast is unacceptable. Remember, this is the Mediterranean, you can't sail from Cyprus to Gibraltar without being within 100 miles of some nation's coast at any given time. Being continually boarded by military personnel is just not something anyone would tolerate, so why do the Israelis think they can get away with that? They could have done things a lot better, at the very least waiting for them to enter Israeli waters. Best case would have been to let them dock in Gaza and have IDF forces inspect the ship for weapons etc (or better yet, inspect it before it left port, but that would require their consent).

So ya, this is very bad news for Israel, although I'm not sure it'll have any immediate benefit for Palestinians. But the political winds may change here and we should expect to see some changes. Hopefully good ones.
 
Glaucus said:
1) This was a Turkish ship and most of the dead appear to be Turks
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Ah. That explains it. Turkey had said that they wouldn't take interference with the fleet lying down so if this was the boat that sparked a confrontation it may have been a gambit that Israel just fell into. Being in international waters means that the Turks had every right to repel the boarders so they win.

Even if the IDF had waited until they were not in international waters it wouldn't have helped because then the ships would have been attacked in Palestinian waters. The flotilla did not intend to sail through Israeli waters at all.

As to the Israel Turkey relations, they have been faltering since the War on Lebanon which Israel lost so badly. The Israelophiles who used to run things have been displaced by more populist leadership. It was Turkey/Brazil who brokered the enrichment deal with Iran that the US, while it supported the negotiations, did not want to see succeed and now say they won't accept it (or that it is "unacceptable").

So ya, this is very bad news for Israel, although I'm not sure it'll have any immediate benefit for Palestinians. But the political winds may change here and we should expect to see some changes. Hopefully good ones.
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It might or it might not but the Palestinians are everyone's pawns.
 
I just watched some BBC lickspittle harangue Mahmoud Abbas, asking him if the so-called "clash" was justified due to the possibility that the aid ships may have been carrying some "materials banned under Israeli law, such as cement.."

Yes, you read that right, CEMENT.
The BBC seemed to think it was OK for the IDF to board a ship in international waters and slaughter a bunch of people because they might have building materials.

And I have to pay these c*nts a TV license fee.......
 
And I can't help but continue to admire the sheer chutzpah of the Israelis:
In a statement, Mr Netanyahu defended the Israeli operation, saying troops were attacked when they landed on the largest of the six ships in the flotilla.

"They were mobbed. They were clubbed, they were beaten, stabbed," he said.
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... and then, without a hint of irony:

"There was even a report of gunfire....."
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....and soon back into 'Mars Attacks' mode:
"Regrettably, in this exchange... people died. We regret this loss of life. We regret any of the violence."
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Yeah, sure you do, Benny boy, sure you do...

Again, from the Beeb.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle ... 199480.stm
 
It looks like Turkey was "well prepared" for this outcome. Israel slit it's own throat by taking the bait.

On Monday, Turkey appeared to be taking the lead in gathering international support against the Israeli attack, with the government already pressing international organizations such as the Organization of the Islamic Conference, or OIC, the European Union and the Arab League to take action.

“The worst possible scenario has happened,” said the head of the Turkish Center for International Relations and Strategic Analysis, or TÜRKSAM, Sinan O?an.

“Israel has made a suicide commando move, and has committed suicide internationally, he said. “The Turkish-Israeli relationship is now open to every different scenario.”

He said, “The relationship between Turkey and Israel will face its biggest test in history, with the possibility of Turkey taking this issue to the European Union.”
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The Israelis are claiming right to self defense, but of course, they don't have one.
Çeviköz said it was against international law to forcibly interfere with ships carrying humanitarian aid in international waters.
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They are the aggressors so have no such right. Those on board the vessel do.

The secretary general makes reference to the attack in association with the International Criminal Court

Oh, and guess who gets to be UN Security Council president in June ... Yup!
 
Robert said:
the aid ships may have been carrying some "materials banned under Israeli law, such as cement.."

Yes, you read that right, CEMENT.
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I know. Really. What good is it to have the Israeli Air Force bomb buildings to dust if they're just going to let Palestinians build new ones.
 
Well, there's no question about it, the IDF soldiers were attacked, although it seems that any gunfire towards them were most likely by fallen or stolen IDF weapons. Regardless, the IDF chose to board the vessel at 4am in a lighting, surprise raid in international waters. From my understanding only UN flagged vessels can board other ships on the open seas, which is why all those navy ships off the coast of Somalia are flying the UN flag. Taking that into account, I see no problem with the passengers of the flotilla attacking anyone who decides to drop in on them unannounced and bearing weapons.
 
According to the wikipedia there was some shooting on the Greek flagged vessel, Sfendoni, and at least one injury.

Well, if there's anything good from this, it's good to see Greeks and Turks on the same side for once. :-) Maybe now the Turkish Air Force will transfer it's over flights to Israel.
 
The Israelis are bullies. i have felt this way at least since the 80's.

back then (in NY) it was a well known adage that one should Never do business with an Israeli. They would try to rip you off, they respected No One and have no loyalty. I never knew anyone who had a good experience with these people. and that includes relatives. And I mean a relative of an Israeli
 
Craig Murray covers the legal side to this in quite some depth. He also points at the BBC's dubious reporting of the event.


I was actually amazed at the difference in tone of the beebs report verses both ITV and CH4's. To say one sided would be a gross understatement.

But the law is clear - the blockade itself is illegal, the ships had already turned back after they had been intercepted and threatened (itself an act of war) whilst in international waters by the Israeli Navy before they were stormed and the boarding of the vessels themselves was illegal and to finish it off, taking them to an Israeli port against their will, kidnapping anyone?

But yeah, Turkey has played an absolute blinder with regard the media on this one. I can't see Israel brushing this under the carpet like they have so many times before.
 
the_leander said:
I was actually amazed at the difference in tone of the beebs report verses both ITV and CH4's. To say one sided would be a gross understatement.
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If you'd seen BBC coverage of the all-out attacks on Lebanon and Gaza, you would not be remotely surprised by this.
 
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