Moved: Saudi Arabia Butchering Journalists

redrumloa said:
Khashoggi BOMBSHELL: Britain 'KNEW of kidnap plot and BEGGED Saudi Arabia to abort plans'
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That whole article is very interesting. On the one hand it does give an opening for the prince - that the order may have come from a different royal - which gives the empire the leverage and excuse to continue to support the prince or support a rival prince depending on the "findings" - but it also gives information the kingdom would rather not have aired, and hints at more intrigue on the Muslim Brotherhood side. Erdogan is aligned with the brotherhood and he has been keeping the story current in Turkey - I'd be interested to see how much more comes out.
I'm also interested to see how the west's relationship changes with the kingdom, and wonder who is working to split the relationship between the empire and the kingdom. Under every president since Eisenhower the US has maintained a strong relationship, and while I could see Iran working against the kingdom, there seems to be a domestic faction that is encouraging things by allowing news to come out and be published. It could be that the prince is just such a lose cannon that they can't help him much, or it could be that the relationship with the kingdom is being reconsidered more broadly, or it could be that another prince is being considered for the job. Interesting times.
 
From what little I've gathered (and tbh I've not followed it very closely) the Prince has managed to upset a lot of the hardliners by authorising things like the relaxation of driving by women for instance.

The supposed liberalisation of things like women driving however isn't due to his stepping out of the dark ages but down to the fact that the Saudi economy simply cannot continue as it has done - it literally cannot afford to have 50% of the population effectively locked out of employment.

But it was darkly humorous seeing the press go from trying to sell him as some kind of progressive only to about face when all this came out. There goes that narrative..
 
Khashoggi murder: Body 'dissolved in acid'

A top Turkish official, presidential adviser Yasin Aktay, has said he believes Jamal Khashoggi's body was dissolved in acid after being cut up.

The "only logical conclusion", he said, was that those who had killed the Saudi journalist in Istanbul had destroyed his body "to leave no trace behind".

Khashoggi, a critic of Saudi rulers, was killed inside the country's consulate on 2 October.

No forensic evidence has been provided to prove his body was dissolved.

"The reason they dismembered Khashoggi's body was to dissolve his remains more easily", Mr Aktay told the Hurriyet Daily newspaper.

"Now we see that they did not only dismember his body but also vaporised it."
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By far my favourite part of this article:
Meanwhile, reports quote Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman as telling the US he considered Khashoggi to be a dangerous Islamist.
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:lol:
 
Robert said:
Khashoggi murder: Body 'dissolved in acid'
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On the one hand it kind of makes sense that you would want to make the body disappear. On the other hand, a lot of what is coming from Turkey is "salacious details" - stuff that they don't or can't really know (or at least shouldn't unless they were actually complicit) but are exciting to the press and the press consumers.

I'm not so sure that transporting liquids would have been better than transporting parts (unless they mean that he was taken in parts to be dissolved elsewhere) and I don't think flushing down the drains would result in no evidence being collected especially with how heavily Turkey was surveilling the embassy. The "no evidence proves that it's true" is a little ... wrong. Without evidence the best we can say is it's a reasonable conjecture - so this sounds a bit like they are leaking this for psychological effect.

On the other hand, it could mean that the lack of a body shows that Khashoggi has physically ascended to heaven and now sits with God.
 
Robert said:
"but they're spending $110 billion on military equipment and on things that create jobs, like jobs and others, for this country. I don't like the concept of stopping an investment of $110 billion into the United States. Because you know what they're going to do? They're going to take that money and spend it in Russia or China, or someplace else."

Priorities. ;)
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How the murder of Jamal Khashoggi finally put the spotlight on UK arms sales and the war in Yemen

The gruesome murder of exiled Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggihas sparked debate about US and UK arms sales to Saudi Arabia in ways that four years of war in Yemen have failed to do.

Yesterday, the matter was debated in parliament with renewed focus. And last week, something rather unusual happened: a member of the British military establishment – Brigadier John Deverell, former defence attache to Riyadh, no less – spoke out against British policy on the Radio 4 Today programme. He states quite clearly and simply that “we’re deeply complicit in the war”, a conclusion the UK government has been strenuously trying to avoid for the past four years.

Priorities ;)
 
CIA concludes Saudi crown prince ordered Jamal Khashoggi’s assassination

The CIA has concluded that Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman ordered the assassination of journalist Jamal Khashoggi in Istanbul last month, contradicting the Saudi government’s claims that he was not involved in the killing, according to people familiar with the matter.

The CIA’s assessment, in which officials have said they have high confidence, is the most definitive to date linking Mohammed to the operation and complicates the Trump administration’s efforts to preserve its relationship with a close ally. A team of 15 Saudi agents flew to Istanbul on government aircraft in October and killed Khashoggi inside the Saudi Consulate, where he had gone to pick up documents that he needed for his planned marriage to a Turkish woman.
 
I guess this deserves to be here for completeness.

Yes, Jamal Khashoggi Was a Member of the Muslim Brotherhood

Yes, Jamal Khashoggi had many friends among the Muslim Brotherhood and, as his colleague David Ignatius reported days after his disappearance, had joined the movement himself as a young man before apparently shifting away from it later in his career. No one who knew Jamal at all is surprised by these facts, no matter with what lurid framing they are now “revealed.” Whatever sympathies and associations he may have had, they do not change the apparent fact that Jamal Khashoggi was kidnapped, murdered, and dismembered to silence his freedom of expression.

Those on the right who have spent decades fighting for free speech on campus will leap to tell you, correctly, that freedom of speech demands respect regardless of the political valance of the views espoused—and that protecting the expression of unpopular views that challenge current political correctness is the acid test for the security of this right overall. So even if you believe that Jamal Khashoggi was a full-bore Brotherhood member with an agenda of Islamization for the Arab world, you should still condem his apparent assassination for the crime of speaking his mind.

 
So what do you guys think about the WWE (formerly WWF) now holding an annual pay per view event in Saudi Arabia? The first one happened almost immediately after this butchering. It could be argued at the time that the details were not all out yet and everything was already in place. But they held another one this year. WWE's public statements on the matter are they hope the events promote change in the kingdom.

Just curious people's thoughts. I don't have a hard and fast opinion. My random thoughts are this killing in isolation is not much different than some of the well known Clinton murders, including journalists. Looking at the country as a whole though, it's not a good look for the WWE. They claim to be progressive, pro-women, pro-LGBTQ etc etc, but are happy as a clam to take money from the Saudis.
 
redrumloa said:
They claim to be progressive, pro-women, pro-LGBTQ etc etc, but are happy as a clam to take money from the Saudis.
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This also applies to my government, your government and countless other organisations.
Money talks.
And it usually talks louder than any supposed principles.
 
Robert said:
'Credible evidence' Saudi crown prince liable for Khashoggi killing – UN report
Mohammed bin Salman should be investigated over journalist’s murder, says report
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Good ol' diplomatic immunity:

Mohammed bin Salman: Saudi leader given US immunity over Khashoggi killing​

The US has determined that Saudi Arabia's de facto leader - Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman - has immunity from a lawsuit filed by murdered journalist Jamal Khashoggi's fiancée.
Mr Khashoggi, a prominent Saudi critic, was murdered at the Saudi consulate in Istanbul in October 2018.
US intelligence has said it believes Prince Mohammed ordered the killing.
But in court filings, the US State department said he has immunity due to his new role as Saudi prime minister.
Mr Khashoggi's ex-fiancée, Hatice Cengiz, wrote on Twitter that "Jamal died again today" with the ruling.
 
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