Murdoch's news-tainment machine is soulless & evil

Robert said:
I'm not sure what your point is.

Looks a bit like: both parties in your two-party system are bought and paid for by the Murdoch family's right-wing propaganda machine but Obama's party cost a little more so it's all his fault?

All it shows me is that the idea that Obama is some kind of liberal-leftie is even more absurd than previously thought.
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OK, no sense talking further with you then.
 
Dammy said:
OK, no sense talking further with you then.
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Don't count yourself out so soon. It's always difficult at the start but if you keep the conversation going it could eventually lead you to learning what others have already learned. Of course, to go from where you are today in your mental model of what is happening in the world to what is really happening is such a large leap that the mind instantly rejects it. It's like going from "God did it" to science. It's a complicated process going from the comfort zone of an emotional non-thinking position to a position of deeper understanding of reality. Unfortunately a lot of comfy myths (like God, for instance) tend to evaporate along the way and that can leave you feeling ungrounded and vulnerable briefly while you adjust. But in the end, seeing the truth is the only way to find solutions.

Freedom demands constant vigilance but it also demands clear perception. Democracy demands a well educated populace but deliberately educating the populace in myth and misinformation makes democracy impossible - and that is what the media (and, unfortunately much of public schooling and "religious education") is for.

Most everybody grows up in this "education", but the ruling classes send their kids to other schools that teach how the world is really run because they are expected to be running it like their parents did when they grow up. Ruling is a family business.

The myth that America doesn't have a class system is just a part of the mis-education of the masses.
 
As the forum grows in members, I foresee a need for moderators in the near future...
 
cecilia said:
I am not one of those people that falls for conspiracy theories,
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... in fact some of my best friends are Jewish/Black/Gay... ... of course I believe in God but sometimes I have questions about ...

You are using a deflection phrase. There is nothing inherently wrong about conspiracy theories. There is nothing inherently wrong with gravitational theories, or any theories. It's just that they can be wrong, but they can also be right.

You are demonstrating that you have acquiesced to the (much promoted) notion that "conspiracy theory" is code for delusion. In a case of criminal conspiracy the prosecutor must lay out a conspiracy theory and then demonstrate why that theory is explanatory and has merit. By describing how the conspiracy in the case worked he has not suddenly become a madman.
 
You are demonstrating that you have acquiesced to the (much promoted) notion that "conspiracy theory" is code for delusion.
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yes, except that in America that's precisely what it means because so many Americans are prone to wacko (non)thinking. Yes, i understand that just because many 'conspiracy theories' are delusional doesn't mean there are no conspiracies.

I just mean I KNOW we were on the Moon, Oswald killed Kennedy, insert wacko idea that way too many people believe with no evidence that I clearly will NOT believe because I'm not a kook.

Now, I admit that at the moment there's no proof that the Pie Incident was set up. I just feel that way because it seemed way too convenient to happen Just then and that immediately after some blond bimbo's masquerading as a 'reporter' was all over mrs murdoch being so Fast and Helpful and isn't she wonderful, blah blah blah.

it made my ears itch......
why would any reporter be talking about murdoch's wife when the real story is that murdoch is a criminal and should burn at the stake?

it doesn't matter too much if this pie thing WAS a set up because compared to mudoch's many many criminal acts, this one was nothing. and it failed to distract anyone with brains. So it can now be relegated to the Ignore bin
 
cecilia said:
I just mean I KNOW we were on the Moon, Oswald killed Kennedy, insert wacko idea that way too many people believe with no evidence that I clearly will NOT believe because I'm not a kook.
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If it came down to a bet your life moment with a supreme all knowing being - I'd go yes on the moon, but I'd hesitate to go yes on Oswald.
 
cecilia said:
I am not one of those people that falls for conspiracy theories, but when I saw that guy throw the "pie" at murdoch and his wife deflected it I just had this FEELING that it was a set up to get sympathy for murdoch.

of course, it's a failure.....murdoch has NEVER been sympathetic and never will be.
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Anyway, if it was an orchestrated event it falls under the heading of PR, not conspiracy theory. PR companies are hired to pull off things like this all the time. I'm not saying either way but it isn't outside of their purview.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
If it came down to a bet your life moment with a supreme all knowing being - I'd go yes on the moon, but I'd hesitate to go yes on Oswald.
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I don't give a shit about any supreme being. I'm keeping my brain and doing my own thinking. I trust no 'god'
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
Anyway, if it was an orchestrated event it falls under the heading of PR, not conspiracy theory. PR companies are hired to pull off things like this all the time. I'm not saying either way but it isn't outside of their purview.
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i'm ok with calling it a PR stunt
 
cecilia said:
I don't give a shit about any supreme being. I'm keeping my brain and doing my own thinking. I trust no 'god'
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Methinks thou hast conclusion jumped before reaching the point of the hypothetical.
 
cecilia said:
atheist here ....don't care about no imaginary friend :)
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I didn't say god and if the word "supreme" is causing an emotional reaction then leave it out. Please try to see what I am saying because this tangent is frustrating.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
I didn't say god and if the word "supreme" is causing an emotional reaction then leave it out. Please try to see what I am saying because this tangent is frustrating.
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sorry, but I went to catholic school and when someone says "supreme being" that's code for god / imaginary friend.

meaning they are imagining a Person / individual with or without white beard who they imagine knows 'everything'.

there's no proof of any such thing so I am not obligated to believe it.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
I didn't say god and if the word "supreme" is causing an emotional reaction then leave it out. Please try to see what I am saying because this tangent is frustrating.
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It's probably about as frustrating as those who constantly post the same conspiracy theory over and over, albeit in different forms, and then hide behind the "it's just a theory" facade. The thing with conspiracy theories is that they are created by conspiracy theorists, and it is often they who are conspiring against everyone else. What's madding is that often little to no evidence is given. This is why I compare them to religion, they both tend to come up with the belief first and then go searching for the evidence to support it later. Yes, conspiracies exist, but that's not what I have a problem with regards to theories. Quite often conspiracy theories always involve those one personally hates or mistrusts, regardless of any evidence at hand. I find them to be quite revealing.
 
cecilia said:
sorry, but I went to catholic school and when someone says "supreme being" that's code for god / imaginary friend.
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It shows.

there's no proof of any such thing so I am not obligated to believe it.
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A generally applicable principle.

However, my objection here is based on the fact that I would rather be criticized for the things that I say than for the things that people THINK I say.
 
Glaucus said:
The thing with conspiracy theories is that they are created by conspiracy theorists,
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... just as string theories are created by string theorists. Of course, we have no idea if ANY string theory is "correct", as far as such things can be. Even a good theory is merely a working description that seems to best describe the phenomenon under study. It doesn't mean that string theorists are crazy ... mostly because no-one is threatened by a string theory that gets too close to the truth.

and it is often they who are conspiring against everyone else.
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Interesting. This sounds like a conspiracy theory - or more like a conspiracy hypothesis.

What's madding is that often little to no evidence is given. This is why I compare them to religion, they both tend to come up with the belief first and then go searching for the evidence to support it later.
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It often doesn't matter what evidence is presented. There are those who will deride evolutionary theory because they are largely unaware of the supporting evidence but when the evidence is presented to them they will refuse to see it because it undermines their world view. They don't want the universe to be a place that they are not special in, where they won't live forever, etc.
Accepting can also be difficult if it causes you sufficient unease such as when it is being perpetrated by the powerful - because then you have to face the fact that you are part of something despicable if you don't try to do something about it but you are also putting yourself in some danger at least of social ridicule by putting your neck out. Accepting things sometimes puts you in an uncomfortable place and people tend to act in such a way as to avoid that place.

Quite often conspiracy theories always involve those one personally hates or mistrusts, regardless of any evidence at hand. I find them to be quite revealing.
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If the hatred is pre-existing then the conspiracy theory can be created around the hatred. However, uncovering what appears to be a conspiracy can invoke hatred where it did not previously exist. Or, moreover, telling the theory can be CONSTRUED as hatred even when it isn't hatred ... especially by those who are implicated or actually guilty. Remember the days when saying that Bush couldn't go into Iraq because the case for WMD was made up was met with the question - why do you hate Americans so much?

Besides, I find it odd that you bring this up in a thread that revolves around conspiracies currently being brought to light.

Anyway, some theories are good and some theories are crap. To conflate the two under one term that can be used to dismiss both is not rational. But it is a useful propaganda tool. If a conspiracy theory pops up that has a chance of gaining traction it is easy to poison the well with fanciful, nutty theories, conflate them all and toss them out on mass.

And, remember, if you are ever asked whether you had prior knowledge of something when you did, you can either say "no" but that is a lie and it is not honorable, or you could just say "that's a ridiculous conspiracy theory" - which would be true.
 
Hmm.....
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