No women in combat - Santorum

[Dammy]

If the Progressives were true to their core beliefs that all government jobs should be open to all sexes, why didn't they include women in the requirements of reaching the age of 18 to be enrolled in the unorganized militia via Selective Service, as men must? Where is Obama, champion of woman's rights, demanding the front line combat units be shall be unisex work conditions? How can Progressives stand for such an injustice!

 

[robert l. bentham]

women in combat doesnt really work to anyones benefit...

 

[faethor]

If the Progressives were true to their core beliefs that all government jobs should be open to all sexes, why didn't they include women in the requirements of reaching the age of 18 to be enrolled in the unorganized militia via Selective Service, as men must? Where is Obama, champion of woman's rights, demanding the front line combat units be shall be unisex work conditions? How can Progressives stand for such an injustice!

Why even have enrollment for Selective Service? Most people have Driver's Licenses or other ID cards, Social Security numbers, and tax information. Seems to me efficencies might be gained by using a computer to compile a list of people whenever needed.

 

[Dammy]

Why even have enrollment for Selective Service? Most people have Driver's Licenses or other ID cards, Social Security numbers, and tax information. Seems to me efficencies might be gained by using a computer to compile a list of people whenever needed.

That doesn't work under US Code for unorganized militia. If there is selective service requirement for the boys, the girls should have to do it as well, it's the Progressive thing to do, right? Where is the sexual equality if woman are excluded from certain federal jobs and assignments? Shouldn't Obama be running with this to create a true equality of the sexes in US Government?

 

[Fade]

Of course all you REMFs never look at it from the male front line trigger puller's point of view.

A female soldier can not carry her own 70 to 100 pounds of required equipment to the front line.
Meaning she will be without her own equipment, or some body else will have to carry it.

And while a male could normally pick up and carry a wounded male comrade back to safety, an average female would either have to leave him, or have to remain with him, and expose both herself and the wounded male to continued assault, possibly causing two deaths instead of one soldier just wounded.

And back to safety, on a front line can sometimes be just a few feet or yards. So yes, it will eventually cause extra deaths.

 

[robert l. bentham]

Of course all you REMFs never look at it from the male front line trigger puller's point of view.

A female soldier can not carry her own 70 to 100 pounds of required equipment to the front line.
Meaning she will be without her own equipment, or some body else will have to carry it.

And while a male could normally pick up and carry a wounded male comrade back to safety, an average female would either have to leave him, or have to remain with him, and expose both herself and the wounded male to continued assault, possibly causing two deaths instead of one soldier just wounded.

And back to safety, on a front line can sometimes be just a few feet or yards. So yes, it will eventually cause extra deaths.

that is exactly my experience with combat and women...

(insert applauding smiley here)

 

[the_leander]

Of course all you REMFs never look at it from the male front line trigger puller's point of view.

A female soldier can not carry her own 70 to 100 pounds of required equipment to the front line.
Meaning she will be without her own equipment, or some body else will have to carry it.

And while a male could normally pick up and carry a wounded male comrade back to safety, an average female would either have to leave him, or have to remain with him, and expose both herself and the wounded male to continued assault, possibly causing two deaths instead of one soldier just wounded.

So what you're saying is no woman, when trained to the same standard as a man, could possibly be capable of the above, even though the difference in strength between men and women is around 5% and there is significant overlap?

That being the case, what possible harm is there in requiring the same level of fitness in both sexes for those roles? It would at once silence those demanding equality whilst at the same time change nothing on the front line since no woman could ever possibly make it through training...

It is an equitable and logical solution and I thank both Fade and Robert for providing it.

 

[Fade]

Quote
"So what you're saying is no woman, when trained to the same standard as a man, could possibly be capable of the above, even though the difference in strength between men and women is around 5% and there is significant overlap?"
--------------------------------

If that were truly the case, then women should be competing directly with men in the Olympics shouldn't they? They both train equally hard, yet in most cases there is more than a 5% difference in the result.

 

[the_leander]

If that were truly the case, then women should be competing directly with men in the Olympics shouldn't they? They both train equally hard, yet in most cases there is more than a 5% difference in the result.

Olympic athletes are by definition at the very top of their given discipline and most of the people who participate are well outside the norm, consider the likes of the current 100 meters champion, who is more than 5% faster than his next nearest competator. On the other hand, how would he fair having to to a 20mile yomp across rough terrain carrying 70lbs of kit at speed?

There are men who are physically not that strong just as there are women who are incredibly strong. Are the strongest women stronger than the strongest men? Barring the odd once in a generation fluke, no, but chances are that strongest women could well out match many men. Hence overlap.

But again I point to the solution I stated in my previous post. If you're right, nothing changes but it silences those remfs demanding equality and if you're wrong the only women who get through it would be ones strong enough that your concerns (which, just to be clear I share to an extent) would be mooted.

Equality in action.

 

[robert l. bentham]

Age Group
Gender
Push-Ups
Sit-Ups
2-Mile Run
17 - 21
Male
42
53
15:54
Female
19
53
18:54
22 - 26
Male
40
50
16:36
Female
17
50
19:36 well that didnt paste the graph image right... so here it is lol http://www.stewsmith.com/linkpages/armyPFTlinks.htm

 

[the_leander]

Interesting. In the royal navy they're required to do the same amount of pushups, but its the version that allows for the knee to be the pivot point rather than the whole body. Is it the same over there?

Btw, what do you think to the solution outlined above?

 

[robert l. bentham]

it used to be that they did the modifieds... now they have to do the regulars but the amount was cut almost in half. as i saw it the physical stuff was actually only about a third of the things to consider... with the other two being hygiene issues and the facts that emotions run pretty high in those situations...people need to be focused on the mission and nothing else and that doesnt always happen.

 

[the_leander]

Periods can be stopped by pill or implant, though not all women react well to either... As for emotions... all depends on the person in question. Whilst not combat I've worked with female bouncers who during a full blown furball in a club had the effect of keeping the male bouncers in check whilst at the same time more than capable of dropping anything that came their way.

But then again if Fade is correct, it'll never get that far as none will make it through basic.

 

[robert l. bentham]

think about it from a fair and equal point a guy fails each of the pt standards by only a few of each hes still done more than is female counterpart and is more qualified than they but the man will still get washed out, and the lesser qualified female candidate will go on to affirmative action promotions one by one.... that's not building you an elite fighting force its stroking the frail ego of feminism....

 

[the_leander]

think about it from a fair and equal point a guy fails each of the pt standards by only a few of each hes still done more than is female counterpart and is more qualified than they but the man will still get washed out, and the lesser qualified female candidate will go on to affirmative action promotions one by one.... that's not building you an elite fighting force its stroking the frail ego of feminism....

I'm sorry, you might want to re-read the solution I put up, I stated clearly that for a woman to take part in such duties they would have to perform same standard as a man, for precisely the reasons outlined by Fade. That means the same number of pushups, the same time requirements for yomps etc.

Equality in all things.

As for elite fighting force... I was raised in a port town with many army, marine and naval bases, we had your lads visit no end of times, we had them try their luck with ours routinely whilst on the lash... elite wasn't a word I'd use to describe them

Squishy was though

 

[cecilia]

the only reason santorum wants women NOT in combat is because he wants them home manufacturing more cannon fodder for the many wars he's hoping exist

santirum should never be in politics.

 

[faethor]

That doesn't work under US Code for unorganized militia.

IMO part of the problem is various Codes were built without the consideration of computers. As we all know computers and electronics improve efficencies, thereby reducing costs. If we want to save money in the government they must have the ability to use these efficencies gain to save money.

If there is selective service requirement for the boys, the girls should have to do it as well, it's the Progressive thing to do, right? Where is the sexual equality if woman are excluded from certain federal jobs and assignments? Shouldn't Obama be running with this to create a true equality of the sexes in US Government?

As Congress approves legislation and Obama confirms the first thing we need is those that support equal rights in Congress to pass the changes.

 

[robert l. bentham]

I'm sorry, you might want to re-read the solution I put up, I stated clearly that for a woman to take part in such duties they would have to perform same standard as a man, for precisely the reasons outlined by Fade. That means the same number of pushups, the same time requirements for yomps etc.

Equality in all things.

As for elite fighting force... I was raised in a port town with many army, marine and naval bases, we had your lads visit no end of times, we had them try their luck with ours routinely whilst on the lash... elite wasn't a word I'd use to describe them

Squishy was though

i know what you said... and if it came to pass it in that fashion it would be great... but you see they feel like "equal" means to account for inherent differences between men and women and then adjust those numbers accordingly... truthfully very few women would graduate from basic if the same-same standard were applied. hygiene is always going to be an issue even if you can stop the flow of monthly evil... marines and sailors are plenty squishy... standards for service arent what they once were... not even for men...

 

[redrumloa]

That being the case, what possible harm is there in requiring the same level of fitness in both sexes for those roles? It would at once silence those demanding equality whilst at the same time change nothing on the front line since no woman could ever possibly make it through training...

Requiring the same level of fitness would be discrimination in the eyes of the PC crowd.

 

[Dammy]

Periods can be stopped by pill or implant, though not all women react well to either... As for emotions... all depends on the person in question. Whilst not combat I've worked with female bouncers who during a full blown furball in a club had the effect of keeping the male bouncers in check whilst at the same time more than capable of dropping anything that came their way.

But then again if Fade is correct, it'll never get that far as none will make it through basic.

Israel use to have women in combat rolls. AFAIK, they stopped that practice for couple of reasons. First the women rather commit suicide (death by enemy I guess is preferred) vs surrender and be raped. Second is interaction with men on the squad level will lead to discipline issues. Besides the obvious male:female relation issues, men have issues when hearing a woman screaming out in shear agony vs a man's scream. Then there is the protective instinct men have for woman, say a female grunt is cut off from her squad during heavy firefight could (and probably has) created disorder of following lower command's orders.