Ok, so... I might be an idiot... :)

Wayne

Wayne

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Hi,

Stick with me for a moment please while I ponder the level of my own stupidity? :)

Have you ever done something that you considered necessary, but that you acted like an idiot by letting frustration guide you? I'm sitting here looking at such a thing at this very moment where I feel that I had to do something, but maybe I overreacted...

For the past 4 months, my 2012 VW Passat, which had just crossed over 50,000 miles had cost me between $300 and $900 per month (avg $600/month) for what most people would consider standard maintenance costs. (brakes, tires, alignment, new wheels where I hit a pothole, etc).

A few weeks ago, the battery started going bad which is normal for a 4 year old battery, but since it was a "VW Specific" battery, I was looking at another $200+ just to replace it. When they tested it, they discovered that I also needed a new alternator.

On a VW Passat, that reportedly meant "dropping the front end" to get to it. Everything on the VW was "VW Specific" maintenance, and they believe they're worth the 50% to 100% increase in maintenance costs

Long story short, VW wanted roughly $900 (plus fees and taxes) to do what -- on an older car -- even I could have done in about an hour for roughly $100 in parts. Between that, my regular car payment, and everything else, my camel's back just couldn't take any more stress...

To that end, I braved the freezing cold (ended up with a head cold), and bought myself my own Valentine's Day gift, literally on Valentine's Day. Hey, "nobody loves me like me" :)

I call her "Ruby", not because she's red or anything (she isn't). It's short for "Root Beer", which describes the orangy-brown color they call "Forged Copper)

On the bad;
  • more debt (which I truly, truly hate -- and it's the reason for any real remorse here)
  • sucky gas mileage (17 to 21mpg versus the VW's 25 to 32), and
  • a bigger monthly payment.
  • I miss some things, like a "switchblade" folding key and auto headlights that the Nissan doesn't have
Good sides are;
  • It's a truck (which I actually need here to haul stuff)
  • It's easier to get in and out of than the VW.
  • It's a Nissan (which is hopefully far more reliable)
  • Standard parts and things like cheaper oil changes that I can do myself (since the Frontier hasn't really been redesigned in a decade)
  • 4 wheel drive (which I'll get to use probably 2-3 times a year)
  • Astounding resale value (apparently). Searching on Autotrader and cargurus showed that used Nissan Frontiers around here sold for same or more than new.
IMG_1299-1.png
 
Wayne said:
Hi,

Stick with me for a moment please while I ponder the level of my own stupidity? :)

Have you ever done something that you considered necessary, but that you acted like an idiot by letting frustration guide you? I'm sitting here looking at such a thing at this very moment where I feel that I had to do something, but maybe I overreacted...

For the past 4 months, my 2012 VW Passat, which had just crossed over 50,000 miles had cost me between $300 and $900 per month (avg $600/month) for what most people would consider standard maintenance costs. (brakes, tires, alignment, new wheels where I hit a pothole, etc).

A few weeks ago, the battery started going bad which is normal for a 4 year old battery, but since it was a "VW Specific" battery, I was looking at another $200+ just to replace it. When they tested it, they discovered that I also needed a new alternator.

On a VW Passat, that reportedly meant "dropping the front end" to get to it. Everything on the VW was "VW Specific" maintenance, and they believe they're worth the 50% to 100% increase in maintenance costs

Long story short, VW wanted roughly $900 (plus fees and taxes) to do what -- on an older car -- even I could have done in about an hour for roughly $100 in parts. Between that, my regular car payment, and everything else, my camel's back just couldn't take any more stress...
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Holy crap... I don't think getting rid of that junkheap was an overreaction. $300-900 a month for for standard maintenance costs? Dude... I have a 2010 Fusion my wife drives that now has 100,000 miles on it. I don't think I've paid $900 a year on maintenance costs on that thing, and it's darn near bulletproof. (knock on wood. It does have 100,000 miles.)

Even my 2006 HHR that I consider pure trash has 160,000 miles on it, and I've never spent more than $2,000 on it in any given year. And Mary Barra keeps sending me apology letters saying how terrible GM screwed up that car. (It did at various points in time have a faulty ignition switch, faulty transmission park lock, faulty body control module, takata airbags that may contain shrapnel, etc. But those were all recall/freebies.) It also contains a proprietary battery next to the spare tire, and a chinese front end that falls apart as soon as it sees a pothole, and rear drum brakes that would have been best left to the 70's. Those weren't freebies, but still, not over $2000 in a year.

Yeah, it was definitely time to move on.
 
Be reasonable and get a Suzuki Wagon R:

Suzuki-Wagon-R.jpg


:P :P :P
 
Speelgoedmannetje said:
Be reasonable and get a Suzuki Wagon R::p :p :p
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Heh, didn't check, but I don't think they sell those here.. :)

OK.. Edit... How sad is it that Suzuki in the US pretty much died 4 years ago and we never even noticed? They sold a Suzuki-branded version of the Nissan Frontier, which in many ways, had a prettier front-end...
 
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http://www.toyota.com/

my mom's car get's checked out every six months at the Toyota service place and if/when something needs replacing they do it. Sometimes there's nothing much to pay and sometimes they replace stuff. but the car runs like new all year long.
 
Hi C,

When I decided to replace the Passat, I had a few requisites;
  1. I really kinda needed a truck. I'm seeing things all the time that I need to get (like Craigslist or Ikea stuff) but can't grab because I'd have to rent a Uhaul.
  2. It had to fit in my garage. (mandatory, that's why I pay for it :) )
  3. 4WD was optional, but desirable for the 2-3 times a year I have to go to work in the snow.
  4. I'd prefer a V-6 or bigger.
That left me with a small/midsize truck, which left me with three options.
  1. Toyota Tacoma -- $32,000 for a V6 but 2WD. $34,000 to $36,000 for a comparable 4WD model.
  2. Chevrolet Colorado -- same as the Toyota or higher with options
  3. Nissan Frontier -- $25,000 for V6 w/4WD and most options I'd want ("Value Truck Package") such as ps/pb/pw, bed extender, sprayed in bed-liner, etc..
The Chevy wins hands-down in all of the side-by-side comparisons, because it's a newer truck with much newer technology. The Frontier is -- for all intents and purposes -- a 10-year-old design, so it's missing things like pushbutton start, but for the most part, it's got every option I want. I just couldn't quantify another $7-8,000 over the $27,000 I paid...

I have a 6-year, 85,000 mile bumper-to-bumper warranty, but would rather have gotten free prepaid maintenance for that time period...

All in all, I feel like I got a decent deal, but I'm full of regret over having spent the money versus just sinking more into the money pit of a VW....
 
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Dear God, why did you hold on to the VW that long? You did the smart thing in sending it on its way. Then getting the vehicle you need. I don't really see low MPG as a negative if the vehicle is meant to haul or tow as those actions necessitate the the power expenditure. My Jeep gets the same MPG towing a full trailer as without and is just as responsive, same if it's fully loaded or not. It's why I got it. Lower MPG is the trade off. Four wheel drive is nice when you need it. If you live where it snow any significant amount or get hit with Noreasters, you'll be glad you have it. Granted being from the North, I've a tad biased.
P.S Nice truck.

Okay, I just googled alternator replacement on a 2012 VW Passat. Damn, That's alot of shop time!
 
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ilwrath said:
Holy crap... I don't think getting rid of that junkheap was an overreaction. $300-900 a month for for standard maintenance costs? Dude... I have a 2010 Fusion my wife drives that now has 100,000 miles on it. I don't think I've paid $900 a year on maintenance costs on that thing, and it's darn near bulletproof. (knock on wood. It does have 100,000 miles.)
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Did your wife hit potholes so any wheels had to be replaced? I think your definition of what constitutes "standard maintenance costs" may vary from Wayne´s.

I am afraid Wayne could have chosen his words more carefully. He wrote that he spent 2400 USD on his Passat over the course of 4 months. We do not know anything about what he spent on maintenance or repairs between 2012 and four months ago. Generally speaking, once you reach between 50.000 and 75.000 miles, it is not uncommon to have to pay for a few repairs. (Drive belts are often replaced between 40.000 and 70.000 miles, for instance.)

Even my 2006 HHR that I consider pure trash has 160,000 miles on it, and I've never spent more than $2,000 on it in any given year..
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Maybe you live in an area with fewer potholes :)
 
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Wayne said:
Between that, my regular car payment, and everything else, my camel's back just couldn't take any more stress...

(...)
  • It's a Nissan (which is hopefully far more reliable)
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I am not sure how reliable they are but according to Consumer Reports, the annual cost of ownership for a TDI Passat is 3.000 USD less per year than for a Nissan Frontier over the span of 5 years. (Also less than for supposedly reliable and inexpensive cars like the Toyota Camry.)

Source: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/12/what-that-car-really-costs-to-own/index.htm

I am not writing this to make you feel bad about your purchase but I just figured everyone else might find this interesting given what was written about the Passat here.
 
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JoBBo said:
the annual cost of ownership for a TDI Passat
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If it were a TDI, I might agree, but then again, I would have expected far more out of a diesel in terms of reliability than the 2.5L 5-cylinder that was in my Passat.

You aren't making me feel bad at all. When it comes to $1000+ to replace a $150 alternator, and $624 to perform the 50,000 mile service (essentially change the oil and transmission fluid), I quickly start to believe there are better options. The part about the Frontier is that, as a 6-cylinder, it may not be TDI-perfect but -- unlike the VW -- if I need to do an oil change, I can just do it myself in my driveway... If I need a set of windshield wipers, they aren't VW-specific parts that cost $75 a set. That sort of thing..

The "German Engineering" aspect, meaning every damned thing had to be done by VW was the killer.

Just as an FYI, I did try to get the transmission service (flush and change fluids) done at a third-party garage here and several said "we can't do it, it takes a special pump that only VW has"... I was able to get the brakes done at a local garage (while I was on Christmas vacation) but even then, they had to drive out to VW and pay VW prices for the pads and rotors...

To both its advantage, and its detriment, the current 2016 Nissan Frontier is essentially a 10-year-old design. A 2005 Frontier doesn't look THAT much different than my 2016. This trades off some modern luxuries (like pushbutton start, auto-headlights, etc) for a "tried and true" design which has been refined and settled through the last 10 years. A newer stereo setup, dual climate controls, and other things have been introduced over the last few years, but it still falls behind tech-wise...

Starting for the 2017 model, it may be completely different, but for now...

In the long run, I can't say whether or not the Frontier will work out better.. As a truck, It better suits my needs, at least until gasoline hits $5 a gallon :)

Similarly while I can't say that my Passat was any better or worse than every other Passat out there, or whether that was simple maintenance that hit at the same time... I dunno, but the simple fact is that I couldn't afford $600 for repairs + car payment every month any more. If I had done the alternator, I would have been out roughly $3400 in six months just to keep it going...

@Argo - The 5-cylinder replacement (it was claimed by the dealer) was similar to the 6-cylinder in the video. Essentially drop and remove the front end from the car. What I was told is, "about 8-hours by the charge book" (the book each dealer uses to decide how much to charge you by the hour for a specific job)

Wayne
 
JoBBo said:
We do not know anything about what he spent on maintenance or repairs between 2012 and four months ago.
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I bought the car used in late 2012 with -- as I recall -- 16000 miles on it. It was actually manufactured in 2011 as a 2012 model, so it was a little older than the 2012 suggested.

Up until the time I sold it, maintenance was done per the manufacturer's schedule every 10,000 miles, so figure what.. 4 times (20/30/40/50k)? That being said, it came with free maintenance through 3 years/36,000 miles, so for the first 3 services, I paid zero. I took it in at 20k, 25k (tire rotation), 30k, and went ahead and had some things done at 36k like tire rotation, etc since it was my last chance to use the free service.

Outside of that, each maintenance schedule stop was between $50 and $200 so assuming the worst, that was the 40k service, 45k rotation, and 50k service. Toss in $75 for a set of windshield wipers, along with other similar things like cabin air filters, and I was spending about $150 per year on average based on the fact that I only drive about 12k miles a year.

The drive belt was scheduled (I believe) to be changed out at 75,000 and the cost to do that was reportedly $1300 to $1500 to include the other things done at that point as part of the 75,000 mile service. I don't actually think that's outrageous compared to other cars, but it's something I had to look forward to within another 2 years. @Lee Stanford @ltstanfo could probably better explain TDI maintenance as he has a 2005 TDI.. @redrumloa if he were still here, could elaborate as he had a TDI Golf (or Jetta) and kept blowing out turbos ($$$$)...
 
JoBBo said:
Did your wife hit potholes so any wheels had to be replaced? I think your definition of what constitutes "standard maintenance costs" may vary from Wayne´s.
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Well, really, I'm talking everything but gas and insurance costs. Belts, hoses, and lights I usually do myself. So that is a $0 labor there. (And the quickie service places usually make their premiums on those.) I might even occasionally do a set of brake pads myself, if I'm feeling really ambitious. But I think we had hers done at the Ford dealer when it was in for the Selectshift transmission calibration recall.

And, yes, my wife did do in two of the original steel wheels on potholes. So when it was time for new tires, I did replace a set of wheels on it. Ordered a set of 4 cheap, but attractive MODA machined aluminum wheels with highly rated Pirelli all-season tires mounted from TireRack. Wheels were on closeout, and I think the whole lot was $750 or so, shipped to my door, IIRC. Hmm. I think I must have had some discount on new TPMS sensors, too. I remember the tires were mounted and balanced when shipped. I just put them on the car, myself. (And I've still got one full size spare steel wheel and old tire in the garage.) So I didn't take out the old TPMS. I might have busted the $900 that year. But I don't think I replaced anything else of significance that year. Brakes were the year before. Tie rods and ball joints, the year after.

JoBBo said:
I am afraid Wayne could have chosen his words more carefully. He wrote that he spent 2400 USD on his Passat over the course of 4 months. We do not know anything about what he spent on maintenance or repairs between 2012 and four months ago. Generally speaking, once you reach between 50.000 and 75.000 miles, it is not uncommon to have to pay for a few repairs. (Drive belts are often replaced between 40.000 and 70.000 miles, for instance.)
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Not sure what you're meaning by drive belts. Timing belts I've never done. Accessory belts (standard serpentine) are a few bucks at the local NAPA, and 10 minutes of my time. They look intimidating, but couldn't be easier. But, yes, a lot of times repairs all come up together. Sometimes it take a little planning and luck to keep them spaced apart a bit.

JoBBo said:
Maybe you live in an area with fewer potholes :)
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Hells no. I live next to Detroit. Our potholes are legend. Even giant sections of bridges fall out so you can see through them.
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...015/11/04/rouge-river-bridge-repair/75176122/

Granted, I am very adept at navigating around them. It only takes one to tear the front off the HHR and need a few hundred dollars worth of work. My wife has hit a couple with the Fusion, to no apparent ill effects. I had the ball joints done on it once, about 20,000 miles ago. I think it did the first 80,000 on the original set. Including the potholes she bent wheels on. (sturdy little devil, that Fusion is.)
 
ilwrath said:
Not sure what you're meaning by drive belts. Timing belts I've never done.
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I was thinking of timing belts. Replacing those tends to be expensive which, as I wrote before, you have to do with most cars quite frequently or risk serious damage.

Hells no. I live next to Detroit. Our potholes are legend. Even giant sections of bridges fall out so you can see through them.
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...015/11/04/rouge-river-bridge-repair/75176122/
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Well, if you have potholes year around, I suppose you are used to pay attention to road conditions at all times. In my case, I usually do not have to worry about potholes too much 10 months out of the year. Once I hit one after 10 months, I quickly remember :)
 
Got the bed cover installed, and this pic actually better shows the color of the truck in sunlight..


IMG_1338.jpg
 
Wayne said:
Just as an FYI, I did try to get the transmission service (flush and change fluids) done at a third-party garage here and several said "we can't do it, it takes a special pump that only VW has"... I was able to get the brakes done at a local garage (while I was on Christmas vacation) but even then, they had to drive out to VW and pay VW prices for the pads and rotors...
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I live in VW-Land, so pretty much every independent garage has the tools to work with Volkwagen cars. VW´s market share in the US absolutely laughable. Buying a VW in the US means buying a niche / boutique car which naturally implies "slightly" higher costs for maintenance, parts, etc. compared to any of the big players. Nissan is not exactly a huge player either but they do have twice the market share...

Similarly while I can't say that my Passat was any better or worse than every other Passat out there, or whether that was simple maintenance that hit at the same time... I dunno, but the simple fact is that I couldn't afford $600 for repairs + car payment every month any more. If I had done the alternator, I would have been out roughly $3400 in six months just to keep it going...
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Unless your name is ilwrath, given the age and mileage, spending this amount is not unheard of (and I am not just talking about VW here). The alternator sounds like bad luck though.
 
JoBBo said:
The alternator sounds like bad luck though.
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That's not bad luck, that is bad design. Simple parts that are known to have a more limited life should be more easily accessible than that. Even the American makers mostly stopped that nonsense back in the mid 90's. (I remember my girlfriend had a early 90's Grand Am. Had to drop the engine to get to the thermostat!) Are you freakin' serious? Fortunately, packaging like that has gone mostly out of style. And for good reason.

As for replacing timing belts/chains... You know what? I've never replaced a timing chain. Ever. And I've driven several cars more than 200,000 miles. Most of the time, the cost of changing the timing chain isn't all that much different from just picking up a rebuilt engine, and, admittedly, it's usually more than is worth sinking into the car when dealing with the types of cars I often drive. So why not roll the dice on it? Aside from people who really thrash their cars, it's really quite rare for it to come up snake eyes on anything less than 10 years old. That high mileage/low time period is exactly the type of endurance testing automakers do a lot of.

Pretty much the only things I do on a schedule are filters, fluids, accessory belts, and hoses. Everything else I just keep an eye on and see how it does. (shrug) And if, like Wayne ran into, a lot of things start looking bad at once, it's time to move on. :D

Well, if you have potholes year around, I suppose you are used to pay attention to road conditions at all times. In my case, I usually do not have to worry about potholes too much 10 months out of the year. Once I hit one after 10 months, I quickly remember :)
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Yeah, and actually, Detroit drivers are really pretty courteous. They usually won't purposely block you into a lane they know is bad. As Red Green said, "We're all in this together."

And the potholes usually develop slowly enough that if it is a major road, most people know where to avoid. You can follow the herd and be safe most of the time. It all helps.
 
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