Paul's serious challenge in Iowa could rock the GOP race

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redrumloa said:
If you read the short article you would have seen not only was there a nativity scene, there was also a menorah and there is no reports of any group that wanted an alternate display. That is not good enough for the ALCU. What we are seeing is the law of unintended consequences. People like the ACLU and Cecilia want to use separation of church and state as a method to eradicate all forms of (specifically) judo-christian expression or symbolism.
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I don't think a Menorah provides the backing that the City is a diverse displayer of many religions and doesn't favor any. Seems to me they are favoring 2 at most, though likely 1 still.

Seperation of Church and State means the government should not be promoting one religion over another. Displays are promotions. Judeo-Christian or not isn't the issue for me. I'd be just against the single display of Islamic holidays or the Buddist holidays and ignoring other religions. That behavior is tantamount to support by the Government. The easy answer is for the City to not celebrate the religious holidays with displays. The more complicated is celebrate every religon's events with equivalent displays. I'm sure that'd be do able but such a pain that I doubt it'd be worth the extra staff and storage.

The City's argument that they are doing this because 80% of people are Christian doesn't work. The Government supports 100% of people not just the vocal 80%. Doing so is tyranny by the majority. Minorities have rights too. Again it's far easier for the City to be neutral than try to satistfy the hundreds of different religions with displays.
 
faethor said:
I don't think a Menorah provides the backing that the City is a diverse displayer of many religions and doesn't favor any. Seems to me they are favoring 2 at most, though likely 1 still.

Seperation of Church and State means the government should not be promoting one religion over another. Displays are promotions. Judeo-Christian or not isn't the issue for me. I'd be just against the single display of Islamic holidays or the Buddist holidays and ignoring other religions. That behavior is tantamount to support by the Government. The easy answer is for the City to not celebrate the religious holidays with displays. The more complicated is celebrate every religon's events with equivalent displays. I'm sure that'd be do able but such a pain that I doubt it'd be worth the extra staff and storage.

The City's argument that they are doing this because 80% of people are Christian doesn't work. The Government supports 100% of people not just the vocal 80%. Doing so is tyranny by the majority. Minorities have rights too. Again it's far easier for the City to be neutral than try to satistfy the hundreds of different religions with displays.
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I cannot believe you do not see the blatant, complete hypocrisy in this? The ACLU never goes after anyone other than Judeo-Christian by design. Do you have children in public school? Muslim students may wear any garb they wish to school, including a full burka, yet schools will punish students for wearing a cross on a necklace. By and large students are not allowed to bow their head in quiet prayer, but Muslim students may be excused to go pray to the East. There is no consistency.

Keep in mind that I am no church-goer.
 
redrumloa said:
I cannot believe you do not see the blatant, complete hypocrisy in this? The ACLU never goes after anyone other than Judeo-Christian by design.
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I see the problem is one of statistics. If Christians are 80% of the US the probability is going to be much higher that Christian displays by the government are undertaken. I have to ask you what cities did the ALCU ignore and what non-Judeo religion was it? Was there one that had a large display for Ramadan or perhaps a big Diwali display?

Do you have children in public school? Muslim students may wear any garb they wish to school, including a full burka, yet schools will punish students for wearing a cross on a necklace.
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I agree a public school shouldn't be dictating legal religious garb. Being my kid goes to school with some girls of some Christian faith that requires females heads to be covered and others are wearing crosses it seem at least my local school doesn't have this problem.

By and large students are not allowed to bow their head in quiet prayer, but Muslim students may be excused to go pray to the East. There is no consistency.
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A school may not lead or participate. This is indoctrination and is illegal for the gov to partake in. Kids, even Christians, may be excused for prayer and religious practices.

Here's one ACLU article that demonstrates Christianity is not the only faith they are concerned about. http://www.aclusandiego.org/news_item.php?article_id=000273 -- The ACLU calls for Islamic prayer to not be conducted by the school and meet the rules of the US. Additionally, it seems the schools was considering segmenting via race and creed which would be against the Constitution and warned by the ACLU. It appears the school did meet ensurances of legal compliances.

Though it is sad that the US seems to rely heavily on the UCLA to do this work. We as citizens should make sure the government is not partaking in or unfairly restricting religion.
 
redrumloa said:
I cannot believe you do not see the blatant, complete hypocrisy in this? The ACLU never goes after anyone other than Judeo-Christian by design.
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Actually there have been cases where the aclu has defended Christians in the US from real cases of discrimination. To try to paint this as persecution is laughable on the face of it. Yes, the majority of their cases are going to be in defence of minorities against the majority, but that would likely be true of any majority. It doesn't help however with the growing confidence of dominionist sects trying to impose their will on other groups.

redrumbola said:
Do you have children in public school? Muslim students may wear any garb they wish to school, including a full burka, yet schools will punish students for wearing a cross on a necklace. By and large students are not allowed to bow their head in quiet prayer, but Muslim students may be excused to go pray to the East. There is no consistency
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Going to to have to ask for a citation on where a single school bans crosses being worn but allows the veil, with or without aclu involvement.
 
@redrumloa

The ACLU field a large number of cases such as when the Florida ACLU filed court papers in 2005 supporting Rush Limbaugh's argument that investigators violated his constitutional right to privacy when they seized his medical records to investigate whether he violated drug laws when he purchased prescription painkillers.

Damn ACLU protecting the constitutional rights of even nasty people like Rush Limbaugh.
 
As if parents of toddlers don't have enough to worry about, now you have to pay attention to the way your kid interprets a star, because guess what -- he or she could be flashing something that's representative offemale genitalia. Sound ridiculous? Well, it is, but in the U.K., at least one school has gone so far as to change the hand gestures its toddlers do while singing the famous song "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star" to avoid any possible offense.
​
It seems the traditional toddler's version of a star -- pressing the thumbs and pointer fingers against one another to make a diamond -- is quite similar to the sign language symbol for a woman's vagina. So in order to risk offending the deaf population with a bunch of toddlers holding up the "offensive" symbol, they changed it to something else -- what I'm not sure.​
 
theonestonecutter said:
As if parents of toddlers don't have enough to worry about, now you have to pay attention to the way your kid interprets a star, because guess what -- he or she could be flashing something that's representative offemale genitalia. Sound ridiculous? Well, it is, but in the U.K., at least one school has gone so far as to change the hand gestures its toddlers do while singing the famous song "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star" to avoid any possible offense. ​

It seems the traditional toddler's version of a star -- pressing the thumbs and pointer fingers against one another to make a diamond -- is quite similar to the sign language symbol for a woman's vagina. So in order to risk offending the deaf population with a bunch of toddlers holding up the "offensive" symbol, they changed it to something else -- what I'm not sure.​
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:lol:
Sad something so funny can be so sad at the same time...
 
Young Turks is as liberal as media gets, no? But it's Fox that's kicking Ron Paul in the head.
 
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