People are done with the establishment

metalman said:
Sanders-Ignorance-copy.jpg
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Well, it's true that a lot of people seem not to understand economics - for a start - there is no reason a government ever needs to borrow money when it can simply create it into existence and tax it out of existence again (instead of relying on private corporations like banks to lend it into existence at interest).
 
JoBBo said:
@ metalman
Sweden, which Bernie Sanders frequently references along with other Scandinavian countries, seems to be doing all right. They even have a higher percentage of entrepreneurs than the U.S. Whether that is because of their more extensive social safety net or despite it depends on one´s political views, I suppose.
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Ah, Sweden…the socialist’s paradise…a place where taxes are among the highest in the world, a few people are wealthy, and the government is involved in people’s lives from cradle to grave

Sweden’s success under a socialism is due to social and demographic factors. Sweden’s socialist success is due to a “Lutheran work ethic” and the cohesion of a largely homogenous population. If you wish to emulate Sweden’s economy and social welfare system, citizens must adopt a Lutheran work ethic and create a largely homogenous population with homogenous social values.

Start bringing in immigrants with different social values, who don't assimilate, and Swedish socialism doesn't work anymore

Stockholm riots leave Sweden's dreams of perfect society up in smoke
 
metalman said:
Sweden’s success under a socialism is due to social and demographic factors. Sweden’s socialist success is due to a “Lutheran work ethic” and the cohesion of a largely homogenous population. If you wish to emulate Sweden’s economy and social welfare system, citizens must adopt a Lutheran work ethic and create a largely homogenous population with homogenous social values.
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So, you are saying that "socialism" can and does work in places as long as certain criteria are met?
 
metalman said:
the traditional way is for socialists to kill all the dissenters, and then socialism works ... for a while
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Are you seriously equating Nordic capitalism, as found in Sweden, Denmark or Finland, with USSR-style "socialism"?
 
I think that Fluffy is right in as much as many people are getting tired of the establishment and its cronies. But to an extent I think metalman is also correct - many of the people lining up to fill the gap are loons. I don't know enough about Sanders to say anything of his policies, but I know enough about Labour's history to say that going back to the policies they ran in the 60s and 70s would kill this country stone dead.

The sick man of Europe. That was the description of Britain given to it by the USSR when they looked at our economy and produce. 3 day work weeks and rolling blackouts do not a healthy economy make.

I don't want to go back to that. Some of my earliest memories are of the death knell of the Trade Unions - My Uncles and their workmates coming into my mothers flat from the picket lines, dejected and suffering as they protested the Thatcher government's privatise everything plan.

At the same time, I'm against the Tory obsession with privatising everything. It's almost like a religious mantra with them and it does no one any good.

I'm also against the current crop of cronies. But the choices outside of the establishment over here at least are UKIP and old school Trots. Neither are palatable to me.
 
the_leander said:
I don't know enough about Sanders to say anything of his policies
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one thing Bernie has ALWAYS done is speak about ISSUES. At no time does he devolve to insults and demeaning either his constituents or the other candidates. he refuses to play that game. That ALONE makes him head an shoulders above the rest.

He has always talked about what the middle class needs to flourish and survive. He never talks down to his audience.


https://berniesanders.com/
 
cecilia said:
one thing Bernie has ALWAYS done is speak about ISSUES. At no time does he devolve to insults and demeaning either his constituents or the other candidates. he refuses to play that game. That ALONE makes him head an shoulders above the rest.
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I would agree, but acting like a patient grandfather doesn't quantify his stance on anything as even remotely good for the country..
 
I mentioned Tony Abbot near the top of the thread - then I just came across one of the weirdest responses to an interview from anyone, never mind a head of state.
 
metalman said:
Sweden in flames: As gangs of migrants riot for five nights running... the Utopian boats of a multicultural success story turn to ashes

Sweden no longer a homogenous population with homogenous social values.
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This is perhaps not an unintended consequence of US wars. Ultimately when social cohesion is undermined and replaced by fear and mistrust it becomes very much easier to the elite to take advantage of the people (and take their stuff). Social cohesion is difficult but brings great rewards (makes the majority of people wealthier) but when it breaks down (is attacked) that wealth created by the people can be aggregated quickly into the hands of a few. This is a trouble for the commons but I doubt the ruling classes are shedding too many tears (except that the local ruling classes will have to deal with being mid-level managers for the ultimate foreign rulers, but it's still a step up in wealth).

None of this means that the egalitarian society isn't worth fighting for - it's just that it's hard to maintain.
 
Bernie Sanders Reaches 1 Million Donations Faster Than Any Presidential Campaign in History
Bernie won all the focus groups and online polls — so why is the media saying Hillary won the debate?

Sanders won the CNN focus group, the Fusion focus group, and the Fox News focus group; in the latter, he even converted several Hillary supporters. He won the Slate online poll, CNN/Time online poll, 9News Colorado, The Street online poll, Fox5 poll, the conservative Drudge online poll and the liberal Daily Kos online poll. There wasn’t, to this writer’s knowledge, a poll he didn’t win by at least an 18-point margin. But you wouldn’t know this from reading the establishment press. The New York Times, the New Yorker, CNN, Politico, Slate, New York Magazine, and Vox all unanimously say Hillary Clinton cleaned house. What gives?
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