Racism in FL public school system run by democrats

redrumloa

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Minorities don't need to learn anything.

The new targets approved by the State Board of Education on Tuesday set loftier benchmarks for Asian and white youngsters and lower ones for black and Hispanic children.

By 2018, 90 percent of Asian students, 88 percent of white students, 81 percent of Hispanic students, and 74 percent of black students are to be reading on grade level.
Yup, that's our "liberal" democrats telling minorities they aren't capable to being equal to white and asian students!

Anyone want to argue this is not racism?
 
Anyone want to argue this is not racism?

sure... it's the "side effect" of asking the federal government for a waiver from "no child left behind", a bush program... and your point is? now they will have to try harder to get black students to the top as it were, actually twice as hard it seems.... good luck proving you can manage that goal, through privatization instead of the more reasonable ones imagined even by that dolt bush...
 
SPLC files complaint with DOJ over Florida's race-based education goals

The Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) on Friday filed a complaint with the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) alleging that Florida's race-based education goals for minority students violate civil rights law.

Well {bleep} duh! It doesn't just violate the civil rights law, it is unequivocally racist with the worst malice intent.

Iguess I we will be hearing about how the SPLC is a fringe right wing group soon.

BTW here is a related thread.
 
sure... it's the "side effect" of asking the federal government for a waiver from "no child left behind", a bush program... and your point is? now they will have to try harder to get black students to the top as it were, actually twice as hard it seems.... good luck proving you can manage that goal, through privatization instead of the more reasonable ones imagined even by that dolt bush...

No... I gotta agree with Red... This one is pure racism. If you wanted to counter the "side effects" of NCLB, wouldn't you be better off setting targets based upon school district rather than race? And even making an adjustment based on district is completely admitting the program failed. (Which it has...) But adjusting by race?! All you're saying with this is that Blacks are dumber than Hispanics, who are dumber than Whites, who are dumber than Asians.
 

It's a stupid racist policy. As Jerri Katzerman said in the article "When you set low expectations, that's what you get", or as they say about setting metrics - you get what you measure.
But it's worse than that - it means that schools with more black students can fail more before they get looked at and they can be de-funded until they are failing enough - i.e. a good performing black school can have money taken from it until it performs as poorly as other black schools.
And beyond that, it puts good black students at a disadvantage after they finish school because there will be a perception that a black "A" is not as good as a white "A".
 
By 2018, 90 percent of Asian students, 88 percent of white students, 81 percent of Hispanic students, and 74 percent of black students are to be reading on grade level.

Anyone want to argue this is not racism?
Even though blacks are at lower levels they must improve more. LINK Today Florida is really failing black education as only 38% of blacks are reading at grade level. They must increase by 36 points. Compared the rest of the state which 57% are at reading level. They must increase by 25 points. Feel free to do the math. Blacks are expected to improve at close to twice the rate of the rest of the State. (36/38 to 25/57)

More blacks have to improve faster. Perhaps that is racist to put more effort, and likely resources, into one minority? Thoughts Red?

Sorry for the 'advertising'. But, if you know a kid in your community, especially impoverished, sign them up for free books from the Dolly Parton Imagination Library When people are poor and working a few jobs to make ends meet they don't have the time or money for reading. This makes books available and takes care of the $$ part.
 
I find it difficult to get on board your racist bus that thinks more resources, and more demands to help the area with the worst test scores is some sort of offensive racism at work.
 
Yadda yadda yadda

Legal
The UN does not define “racism”; however, it does define “racial discrimination”: According to the United Nations Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination,

the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.
 
Is Florida's ranking by race racism? Perhaps. I'd need to know more, such as what other statistics were collected and which is a better measure of ability. The one I can think if is income. On average children of impoverished families read at 2 grade levels below their school grade level. Does that apply as well in Florida? And is that a better indicator? If those are yes then I'd certainly agree the better measure should be used.

Being that all the info I have is what you provided, and a quick look up to see how those same stats are sitting today that's what we have to go on. What we do see is blacks are being challenged to improve twice as fast as whites. This means more blacks will have enjoyment of their freedoms.

Question - is there anything in the program preventing more than that % from succeeding? What actions are the schools taking to ensure a greater % can't read?
 
Is Florida's ranking by race racism? Perhaps.

You do realize you just asked if changing acceptable educational standards based on nothing but race is racist, right? I'll leave you to find your own answer to that.

To me, there's a lot of ways you can look at this. And when you start changing "standards" based on the color of skin, you're doing it wrong. How, exactly would you explain why a black kid who lives at 1303 Evergreen is expected to meet one educational standard, while the white kid at 1305 Evergreen gets held to another. And neither of them is expected to do as well as the Asian kid who lives in 1301 Evergreen. If that isn't goddamn racism, tell me what is.
 
I find it difficult to get on board your racist bus that thinks more resources, and more demands to help the area with the worst test scores is some sort of offensive racism at work.

the culture of the community and parents is more important than how much money is spent on schools, otherwise the best preforming school district in the nation would be KCMO

Any parent who wanted their children to actually learn something in school got their kids out of KCMO
 
You do realize you just asked if changing acceptable educational standards based on nothing but race is racist, right? I'll leave you to find your own answer to that.
I know, I'm just a fiscal conservative thinking we should actually identify groups most in need and spend the most money there to get our best return. We should shrink the achievement gap to nothing. But, that gap does exist.


the culture of the community and parents is more important than how much money is spent on schools, otherwise the best preforming school district in the nation would be KCMO

Any parent who wanted their children to actually learn something in school got their kids out of KCMO
Indeed the community, culture, parents, economics, and school all play a role. To me that reality means if we're going to improve we have to do more than simply pay for schools and books. Certainly any program can't succeed if the community fails to support it. It's time education started playing a deeper role in changing community attitudes. For example, if the community conceives that evolution never happened those schools will always perform worse on their science scores. The community puts demands on the kids to not embrace scientific thought and instead make leaps of faith.
 
the culture of the community and parents is more important

Yes, exactly.

Now, here is an interesting thing. Does the culture of the black communities discourage education, while the culture of the Asian communities encourages it? And is this bias by racial community at least partially responsible for the educational divide? Yup... I'll go out on a limb and say it is.

Now, how do you address this? Do you just say, "Well, blacks are from a black community, and they don't see the value in education, so we'll lower the standard for them. That way all the numbers line up nice, and pats on the back all around, because we're all doing great." I would say this is the wrong approach.

How about, instead, we reach out to their community leaders and ask how we can encourage more parents and youth to get interested in education? And then actually do those things to help their community?

If you're going to make a standard, it needs to be uniform. Why would you choose to adjust "standards" by race, other than to encourage racism?
 
Now, here is an interesting thing. Does the culture of the black communities discourage education, while the culture of the Asian communities encourages it? And is this bias by racial community at least partially responsible for the educational divide? Yup... I'll go out on a limb and say it is.
If racial communities have a positive or negative impact to education then we should measure that impact. It's actually racist not to measure because then you have no data to prove their community is an impact, it's only your gut reaction. (Aka your limb is an unproven racist stereotype until you have some data demonstrating the impact.) We should also measure the improvement (hopefully) that comes from the programs. That's the only way to know if the reading goal is truly improving in those communities. If it's not then we should look to change what's happening so it can improve.

Now, how do you address this? Do you just say, "Well, blacks are from a black community, and they don't see the value in education, so we'll lower the standard for them. That way all the numbers line up nice, and pats on the back all around, because we're all doing great." I would say this is the wrong approach.
Another way to look at this is we're expecting whites to improve their reading by 50% and blacks to double that with a 100% improvement. In that perspective we realize that a greater % of blacks must make a greater improvement. (I suppose one could see some inverse racism as whites have the smaller demand.)

How about, instead, we reach out to their community leaders and ask how we can encourage more parents and youth to get interested in education? And then actually do those things to help their community?
Oh so now you want to use race. Racist! ;) Of course going to the community is part of what needs to happen and nothing excludes that from the approach. At least from Red's provided reading it establishes goals to improve to not methods of how to get to those goals. What you're describing here is one possible method. Again I find nothing from the article Red provided preventing what you want.

If you're going to make a standard, it needs to be uniform. Why would you choose to adjust "standards" by race, other than to encourage racism?
Remember we're also dealing with money, people, and time - those are limited resources. What does the financial equation look like to triple or quadruple the black readership rates? And how much negatively is impacted to other races? To play Devil's Advocate does that sort of approach pull all funds from whites. Do you build Black Centers For Kids Who Can't Read Good And Wanna Learn To Do Other Stuff Good Too which refuse whites? Wow would that be racist. I think the result here is results in a change of focus. It ends up fixing the inequality in reading instead of helping ALL to read better.
 
Now, here is an interesting thing. Does the culture of the black communities discourage education, while the culture of the Asian communities encourages it? And is this bias by racial community at least partially responsible for the educational divide? Yup... I'll go out on a limb and say it is.
If racial communities have a positive or negative impact to education then we should measure that impact. It's actually racist not to measure because then you have no data to prove their community is an impact, it's only your gut reaction. (Aka your limb is an unproven racist stereotype until you have some data demonstrating the impact.)
Meh, yeah, I really misphrased that paragraph. The dangers of forming thoughts as I type them. I'd go back and edit it, if it wouldn't throw the continuity of this thread out the window. So, instead, I'll try to restate more of what I meant... Which is actually an interesting exercise in precise wording.

What I should have been saying was... There certain communities, that may happen to be predominately black, that hold a lesser value on education. Does this disproportionately affect blacks? Yes, it may. But that doesn't mean we should be making corrections based on color. It means we should be looking at those communities and trying to help. When I said 'racial community', I wasn't meaning black community, I was meaning it as local community whose members tend to be black. That may sound like it's splitting hairs. But it definitely is not.

The predominately black communities in the City of Detroit don't have much in common with the predominately black communities in say Southfield, MI. While the predominately white communities in Ecorse, don't have much in common with the predominately white communities in Farmington Hills. Despite all these areas being within 50 miles of each other. But totally different sets of problems. Ecorse and City of Detroit look a lot more alike than any of the other combinations.

Another way to look at this is we're expecting whites to improve their reading by 50% and blacks to double that with a 100% improvement. In that perspective we realize that a greater % of blacks must make a greater improvement. (I suppose one could see some inverse racism as whites have the smaller demand.)

Or you could look at this as we are expecting certain districts to improve their reading by 50% and others to double that with 100% improvement.... With this perspective, we realize that a greater number of students in district B must make a greater improvement...

As I said before.... Pretty much any time you're looking at skin color, you're doing it wrong.

How about, instead, we reach out to their community leaders and ask how we can encourage more parents and youth to get interested in education? And then actually do those things to help their community?​
Oh so now you want to use race. Racist! ;) Of course going to the community is part of what needs to happen and nothing excludes that from the approach.

I said nothing about using race. (Though I can see your confusion formed from my other paragraph...) But I said community leader. I didn't say racial leader. Those are usually two very different people with very different personalities. Your racial leaders are your Al Sharptons and Jesse Jacksons... They're not going to be much assistance, here. Your community leaders on the other hand... Are the neighborhood grandmas who watch the kids every morning, the local business owners who donate to the community, the local church groups, the after-school groups, the citizens at the city hall meetings, etc... These are the people that know the local hardships and conditions. They're going to tell you the real problems in the community. A lot better than any outside blowhard is going to.

Do you build Black Centers For Kids Who Can't Read Good And Wanna Learn To Do Other Stuff Good Too which refuse whites? Wow would that be racist.

What? First off, who said anything about building anything? Typically buildings don't do a damn thing. Ask Detroit. We got shit-tons of them. Hell, most are free, if you want them. What you have to do is get to the bottom of the reasons why certain areas have the problems they do. Is it because of local violent crime rates? Drug use rates? Is it because the parents are not home? Is it because of a lack of opportunities? Is it because people just don't know any different way? Address those concerns, and you'll be starting to get somewhere.
 
I'm all for community action. Again there is absolutely nothing that forbids community action in what Redrumloa provided as linked. Perhaps if we saw the actual bills it might help more.

As for community - don't forget this is State Level funding. The State knows Cities and Counties. It doesn't know what a nebulous and ill defined 'community' means. Heck that alone may take years of infighting to determine what it means.

If we want local action you can't have the State making community decisions for us. However, if they are going to fund they need a broad method to determine if City A gets more or less funding than City B. Else we'll lose local control as the bill will have methods dictated by the State.

In an ideal world we'd all be equivalent, When the tests are given then skin color wouldn't fall out as a statistical indicator for education level. The fact that it does tells us nothing more than we live an a less than ideal world. It's unfair to make 'equal' demands on 'unequal' starting points. Instead what we see is the greater resource will go to the greatest need. So we are actually making greater demands on the greatest need.
 
@ilwrath

You have more patience than me :)

I think this thread shows the left-right divide that still exists and is the same as when Martin Luther King was alive. MLK longed for a time when people didn't see black or white, rather the content of a person's character. The American left largely still does not get this, even in 2013. They are hell bent on making sure everyone is still divided into racial categories.
 
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