Scott signs law requiring drug testing for welfare recipients

redrumloa said:
I The simple fact is the welfare system *IS* being abused and many of the abusers are druggies.
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Druggies are the worst abusers of welfare. In fact, they abuse it so badly that they make hardly any money at all.
The guys that abuse the system well take billions and say that they are doing it for your own good. Scott's "law" is just classic poor bashing to distract you all from seeing where your taxes have really gone.
 
The solution here is for crackwhores to band together and buy lobbiests.

CyberEye you've excused things as 'the world's not fair' -- It can be as fair as we make it. How should we handle this? Perhaps we should ask our Founding Fathers.

"Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions of property in geometrical progression as they rise. Whenever there is in any country, uncultivated lands and unemployed poor, it is clear that the laws of property have been so far extended as to violate natural right.
- Thomas Jefferson"
 
Wayne said:
Enjoying themselves I have no troubles with. Using "my" money to buy and use illegal narcotics when they should be out looking for work instead? MAJOR problems with that.
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So, there seems to be confusdion over two different issues.

Given that you put the word 'illegal' in italics, made it bold and underlined it, I'm guessing this is what you have troubles with.

So, again I'll ask, are you quite happy for "your" money being used to buy legal narcotics when they should be out looking for work instead?
 
faethor said:
The solution here is for crackwhores to band together and buy lobbiests.

CyberEye you've excused things as 'the world's not fair' -- It can be as fair as we make it. How should we handle this? Perhaps we should ask our Founding Fathers.

"Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions of property in geometrical progression as they rise. Whenever there is in any country, uncultivated lands and unemployed poor, it is clear that the laws of property have been so far extended as to violate natural right.
- Thomas Jefferson"
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That Tom guy is Such rebel ! :D
 
cybereye said:
Nothing is perfect. The law goal is to cut down the dollars, encourage personal accountability, and will help to prevent the misuse of tax dollars.
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Welfare is generally a very small slice of government outlay and the amount of fraud or misuse is a small percentage of that small percentage. However, poor bashing is usually a pretty straightforward way to score political points. If you kick a cripple it makes you look tough.

Now, part of the program, as you also mentioned, is rehab. If you fail you go to rehab. Who pays for that? Obviously the welfare recipient will be hard pressed to come up with that sort of money - so are they just cut lose at that time and told to come up with the funds somehow themselves or tough luck?

Or... would the people who fail be sent for rehab at taxpayers expense? That will cost the taxpayers a bunch more money than welfare for a year, and forcing people into rehab hardly ever works. But if the taxpayer is going to spend the money on rehab, who will be offering the treatment. I mentioned before and I'll say it again - GEO group, who used to be Wakenhut, who contributed heavily to Scott, are looking to buy from the state of Florida the last three publicly owned mental health facilities. Those places could be quite lucrative if Florida suddenly needed a lot more drug treatment programs and the programs were funded by the taxpayers of Florida.

I expect Scott will have some nice employment offers from the private sector when he decides it's time to leave politics.
 
Robert said:
So, again I'll ask, are you quite happy for "your" money being used to buy legal narcotics when they should be out looking for work instead?
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In a limited scope, if welfare funds were used to cover legally issued prescription medications, at least we *should* be getting some tax revenue from it.

That being said, I do understand how the drug companies are evil corporations who don't actually pay any taxes, but we did the same with alcohol and it seems to have stabilized the issue as well as provided a revenue stream.

Wayne
 
Wayne said:
In a limited scope, if welfare funds were used to cover legally issued prescription medications, at least we *should* be getting some tax revenue from it.
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I was talking about alcohol and tobacco, not prescription medication.

However that's almost irrelevant to my point and I still don't get your motivation here.

Are you saying you'd be OK with welfare claimants taking illegal drugs if the drugs were taxed?

If not, why are you OK with them taking alcohol or tobacco?
 
faethor said:
The solution here is for crackwhores to band together and buy lobbiests.

CyberEye you've excused things as 'the world's not fair' -- It can be as fair as we make it. How should we handle this? Perhaps we should ask our Founding Fathers.

"Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions of property in geometrical progression as they rise. Whenever there is in any country, uncultivated lands and unemployed poor, it is clear that the laws of property have been so far extended as to violate natural right.
- Thomas Jefferson"
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I don't know the full story between Thomas Jefferson and James Madison. It is about property in uncultivated and no work and being taxation. I would not have any problem if there is no work. They should not have to pay tax. It does not say anything about government pay to the poor people. Thomas Jefferson gave money from his own pocket (not government funds) a few poor Europe people base on the letter. I assume that Europe was being tax even when they are poor when there is no work on the land. I am sure Thomas Jefferson would start cutting the size of the governments as it is now.

Thomas Jefferson: "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."

My point is not about being fair. It is about reality.
 
cybereye said:
Thomas Jefferson: "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."

My point is not about being fair. It is about reality.
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The US has some of the lowest taxes per person in the last 50 years. In addition the top 10% are paying some of the lowest % of their income that they have paid. Large corporations are collecting taxes and avoiding payment. While the Federal System is a progressive system most states have a regressive system.

And so you know your point about 'life's not fair' isn't coming across as an observation. It's coming across as an excuse that we shouldn't try to make a more equible system.

If the problem is truly these people are using drugs and therefore hurting society the answer is like all criminals they should be arrested and thrown in jail or prision. The problem here is actually following the law is going to be even more costly than giving them a few bucks to hang out at home smoking the ganja and playing the Playstation.
 
faethor said:
The US has some of the lowest taxes per person in the last 50 years. In addition the top 10% are paying some of the lowest % of their income that they have paid. Large corporations are collecting taxes and avoiding payment. While the Federal System is a progressive system most states have a regressive system.
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That base on per person and I feel that I am paying too much taxes for what the government is using it taxes. If you look at global corporation tax rates, US are the third highest in the world and if you included with the states it can be the first and second highest on the list. I wonder why many corporations getting out or leave the money outside of the US to avoid paying taxes. When people complain that corporation are not paying taxes are most of the time are legal rules that found within the laws. It time to simplify the rules and get rid of special rules that don’t pay taxes. My view is that I would rather get rid of the Federal System.

faethor said:
And so you know your point about 'life's not fair' isn't coming across as an observation. It's coming across as an excuse that we shouldn't try to make a more equible system.
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I don’t know why you keep saying that ‘life is not fair’. Each system has a job to do. If you start adding so many job within one system and it become more corruption, broken and more costly. I know that the reality is never perfect and it will never be perfect. At this point of that law that Scott has sign into law is more equitable system for me.
faethor said:
If the problem is truly these people are using drugs and therefore hurting society the answer is like all criminals they should be arrested and thrown in jail or prision. The problem here is actually following the law is going to be even more costly than giving them a few bucks to hang out at home smoking the ganja and playing the Playstation.
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You says "a few bucks to hang out at home smoking the ganja and playing the Playstation." sure never seen a person that really heavy drugs user that join in the gangster created very similar to Mexico mafia in the next 30 years from now. I would love to put criminals into moon and work for us because somebody have to pay for this and the criminals have so much time on their hand.
 
redrumloa said:
If that was a stab at humor, it was a poor one. The worst failed states are blue states, with Kalifornia leading the way.
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Arguments abound on who's states have done what. However, I don't believe I've read of any fundies demanding states rights and that they should secede in California. I have however seen such demands from several of the southern states.
 
cybereye said:
That base on per person and I feel that I am paying too much taxes for what the government is using it taxes.
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As you say "Northing is fair". I'd agree the government since the 80s has failed to live within it's means. What the government needs to do is focus investment in people.

If you start adding so many job within one system and it become more corruption, broken and more costly. I know that the reality is never perfect and it will never be perfect. At this point of that law that Scott has sign into law is more equitable system for me.
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Again your comments read that you excuse being unfair because afterall 'nothing is fair'

You says "a few bucks to hang out at home smoking the ganja and playing the Playstation." sure never seen a person that really heavy drugs user that join in the gangster created very similar to Mexico mafia in the next 30 years from now.
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Again if this is the problem then cutting off welfare is not the answer. Arrests an jailing is the penality system we have for this.

Though instead for pot, at least, we should legalize it, kill the industry, and tax it. You want to save costs this would save LOTS of prision, police, and court costs. And likely keep familes more together which raises chances that people won't need welfare either.
 
faethor said:
Again your comments read that you excuse being unfair because afterall 'nothing is fair'
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OK. I think I got your view of being 'nothing is fair.' Do you think a pot users is unfair, Do you think a welfare user is unfair, Do you think a person in a wheelchair is unfair and Do you think a deaf person is unfair?

faethor said:
Again if this is the problem then cutting off welfare is not the answer. Arrests an jailing is the penality system we have for this.

Though instead for pot, at least, we should legalize it, kill the industry, and tax it. You want to save costs this would save LOTS of prision, police, and court costs. And likely keep familes more together which raises chances that people won't need welfare either.
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I don't have a problem with pot users, but some people do. I do know a person give up the pot to get a good jobs. There are many public place smoking is ban and it not even a drugs. Some people hate smoking.
faethor said:
What the government needs to do is focus investment in people.
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I do agree with that. That only work when people is willing to do it. I do admit that Obama is not going very well and I did not like the way Obama used the bailout money. I did not even see any shovel ready system taking place.
 
redrumloa said:
If that was a stab at humor, it was a poor one. The worst failed states are blue states, with Kalifornia leading the way.
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who's laughing???
it's not me......I just found that interesting
 
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