Socialism as the PRIMARY cause of London riots

[redrumloa]

For Robert

These unemployed youth – forced into unemployment by the socialists – have also developed a sense of ENTITLEMENT, as if the society owes them anything! They expect a free lunch in life. Such is the (FALSE) lesson of socialism. These riots are a DRAMATIC REMINDER that socialism, even in is most "diluted" form, CANNOT work.
A clutch of sociologists say the violence was the result of social exclusion among young people who can't see a future for themselves outside the run-down public housing estates where most live.

Looters have been helping themselves, unhindered by police, to goods for which they feel a sense of entitlement. Women have been heard arguing with each other about which shop they should loot first. Others were seen boasting about the number of items they had stolen.

Some looters have justified their actions by hitting large companies, because they can afford to take the loss.

 

[Robert]

I answered this in the "playing tennis" thread but here it is again:
-EDIT-
and in case you missed this first time around too, the *primary* cause was a man being shot dead by police.
--

Hahaha.... thank you.
That's just about the funniest excuse I've heard yet. You should get onto Question Time or Newsnight over here. There have been people pontificating and spouting all sorts of absurdities on "news-panel" discussions about what they think caused the riots but that's just about the most bat-shite-mental one I've heard yet.

Then again, I guess that's why Sweden's on the rampage.....

Personally, I don't see these riots as a *direct* result of the failure of any "ism". Most of this is just wanton violence, arson and robbery by opportunist scumbags.

However, for some reason rioting always seems to happen when the Tories are in government.

One of the reasons I don't attach much significance to this is that the previous "New Labour" goverment were almost as right-wing as the current lot.
The Tories used to be *the* party of the right but you would struggle fit a fag paper between any of the three main UK parties these days.

Of course, where I see right of centre you see socialist-pinko-liberal, so you probably think all UK parties are left-wing, socialist and liberal.

I see them all as simply varying degrees of right of centre now and Murdoch's almost exclusive control of UK newspapers has played a part in this country reaching such a depressing status quo.

Just one more reason I'd like to see Scotland extricate itself from the UK.
Not that there's any guarantee we'd fare any better but Scotland has traditionally been more socialist-leaning than England, so it's possible.

Oh, and Scotland has so far been free of any of the current nonsense. In fact, so have Wales and Northern Ireland. It's been confined to English cities so far. I also get the impression it's petering out. I hope so.

But yes, socialism caused it. That's pretty much what Cameron is saying on my telly right now.
You should tune in to BBC News 24 and check out what he's saying.
You'd probably think he was OK...... for a screaming leftie.

 

[Dammy]

I doubt the UK government will be able to handle this or when the EURO and US Dollar becomes worthless. I see a possible full blown collapse of the UK Government and Sharia Law filling the void to restore order at some future date.

 

[Robert]

I doubt the UK government will be able to handle this or when the EURO and US Dollar becomes worthless. I see a possible full blown collapse of the UK Government and Sharia Law filling the void to restore order at some future date.

Hahaha.... keep 'em coming, fellas.

I know we're only a coupla posts in but this has pontential to be the.....

 

[Speelgoedmannetje]

Red, you have a point, but I have a 2 points: socialism + a capitalist culture of hedonism and utter selfishness is apparently not a good combination.
But how do they come up anyone is forced into unemployment? That's blatant slander!
Only a good mentality is a 'system' that works.

 

[Robert]

This, in my opinion, is probably more accurate:
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/...y,-thieving-pricks,-say-experts-201108094174/

As the city's often neglected underclass of dicks, twats and fuckers, let out a desperate cry of opportunist theft, Waterstones in Clapham was only spared after staff hurriedly removed the Stars of the Jeremy Kyle Show Pop-Up Book from the window.

Dr Tom Logan said: "I'm a sociologist, which means three things - I have an appalling education, I have very little money and most of the time I am unbelievably bored.

"And yet I have only a fairly small inclination to set fire to some shops while refreshing my tracksuit collection.

"You see, some people are just dicks, but sometimes even dicks like an excuse."

Rioter Martin Bishop said: "I'm not entirely sure who is to blame for me wanting to steal things and then set fire to the building where those things used to be.

"But it is nice to have the flimsy excuse. It makes me feel more mature."

Meanwhile, as former England cricket captain Alec Stewart began assembling a posse of vigilante test heroes, seismologists reported a sudden lurch to the right as people who own tagines found themselves calling for the immediate deployment of the Parachute Regiment and a couple of RAF Tornadoes.

Julian Cook, a planning consultant from Finsbury Park, said: "As long as it doesn't get too 'Bloody Sunday' I think it could teach them a valuable lesson about property rights and the rule of law."

But Dr Logan stressed that long after the fires had been extinguished debate would continue to rage over what turned these dicks into the fuckers they are.

 

[Glaucus]

Personally, I think the best thing to do is not worry what caused it as you're not likely to fix it anyway. And in fact, there probably wasn't any real unified cause behind this, just like the recent Vancouver riots. Of course people with agendas will push one issue or another; it was because of socialism, it was because of fat bankers, it was because of immigrants, etc. But unless the middle class is behind this, and it doesn't seem to be, well, it doesn't really matter what the cause is.

 

[Robert]

Personally, I think the best thing to do is not worry what caused it as you're not likely to fix it anyway. And in fact, there probably wasn't any real unified cause behind this, just like the recent Vancouver riots. Of course people with agendas will push one issue or another; it was because of socialism, it was because of fat bankers, it was because of immigrants, etc.

Boooo!

Mike, such sensible talk will only lead to the ruin of this thread.

 

[redrumloa]

Personally, I think the best thing to do is not worry what caused it as you're not likely to fix it anyway. And in fact, there probably wasn't any real unified cause behind this, just like the recent Vancouver riots. Of course people with agendas will push one issue or another; it was because of socialism, it was because of fat bankers, it was because of immigrants, etc. But unless the middle class is behind this, and it doesn't seem to be, well, it doesn't really matter what the cause is.

That sounds nice, but explain why it doesn't happen in the heartland of America?

 

[Glaucus]

My guess would be policing style. The UK rioters know not much will happen. US police aren't likely to just sit back and watch city blocks torched.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

That sounds nice, but explain why it doesn't happen in the heartland of America?

Three reasons.

1. Low population density in the heartland.
2. It actually does happen from time to time (Rodney King)
3. FEMA camps

I could go to number 4 maybe and say, wait until austerity starts to bite.

 

[redrumloa]

Must See Video of the London Riots – “We Getting Our Taxes Back”

 

[Robert]

Must See Video of the London Riots – “We Getting Our Taxes Back”

I'm not sure what part of those videos is supposed to be "must see," but the accompanying text is flat out wrong:

Tottenham. A man from the area had been shot by police, but police are claiming an exchange of gunfire took place

1. As far as I'm aware, police claimed no such thing
2. Even if they had, it has now been proven there was no exchange of gunfire. Both shots were from police.
3. Points 1 & 2 are irrelevant, since socialism caused it.

 

[faethor]

That sounds nice, but explain why it doesn't happen in the heartland of America?

Philadelphia institutes curfew laws to stave off mobs of black men who are committing large attacks. http://www.businessinsider.com/philadelphia-institutes-curfew-to-stave-off-flash-mobs-2011-8

Atlanta turns up their curfew enforcement. http://www.ajc.com/news/city-officials-call-for-963275.html

And just in case you want more info here's the Fox News source about the growing mob activity around the US.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/08/1...aise-questions-over-possible-race-motivation/

 

[redrumloa]

Philadelphia institutes curfew laws to stave off mobs of black men who are committing large attacks. http://www.businessinsider.com/philadelphia-institutes-curfew-to-stave-off-flash-mobs-2011-8

Atlanta turns up their curfew enforcement. http://www.ajc.com/news/city-officials-call-for-963275.html

And just in case you want more info here's the Fox News source about the growing mob activity around the US.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/08/1...aise-questions-over-possible-race-motivation/

None of those are in the heartland.

 

[faethor]

None of those are in the heartland.

True... Though together their population likely exceeds that in the heartland. Harder to riot when you gotta run 5 miles to the riot and then back home. If I had to run to town to burn it down I'd probably bike as it's 8 miles 1 way. Though a burning grass field can be dramatic on it's own. The cops probably wouldn't think it a riot on the farmer.

 

[clebin]

For Robert

It's a bizarre argument given that the country has moved steadily away from socialism for the past 30 years. This loony, who can't emphasise a point without using highlighter pens, acknowledges reasons for the riots and then says we should go further, as if the way to repair a fractured society is to smash it a bit more.

It's seems that capitalism doesn't come under his radar, even though most of these kids were stealing branded materialistic goods like trainers and mobile phones.

These riots are horrible acts of greed and selfishness, but look at the power in this country - politicians, media, banks, big business and, maybe, the police. They've all been utterly shamed and discredited for their own greed and selfishness in recent times. There's no respect for authority and authority has no respect for anyone else. It's more violent and shocking than a politician fiddling his expenses or a policeman taking bungs from the News of the World, but its the same attitude - shovelling money and possessions into their greedy little gobs, and screw the rest of you.

I just think society is a bit rotten on a number of levels right now. I don't want to lock myself in my house to keep some chavvy bastard kids out, nor do I want this right-knob knob claiming the moral high-ground for his kind while they discreetly bend the law for their own gain. Something has to change...

 

[redrumloa]

True... Though together their population likely exceeds that in the heartland. Harder to riot when you gotta run 5 miles to the riot and then back home. If I had to run to town to burn it down I'd probably bike as it's 8 miles 1 way. Though a burning grass field can be dramatic on it's own. The cops probably wouldn't think it a riot on the farmer.

IMO it has more to do with upbringing, lifestyle and morals. For the most part people in the heartland were raised to value family, church and conservative values. They have traditional red state values. Outside of the heartland, once you start getting into bigger cities, you start getting upbringing that is more focused on pop culture, materialism and expectation of entitlements as a birthright. I'd dare you to find one instance of Amish riots and looting.

 

[redrumloa]

-snip-

Welcome to Whyzzat!

 

[Glaucus]

IMO it has more to do with upbringing, lifestyle and morals. For the most part people in the heartland were raised to value family, church and conservative values. They have traditional red state values. Outside of the heartland, once you start getting into bigger cities, you start getting upbringing that is more focused on pop culture, materialism and expectation of entitlements as a birthright. I'd dare you to find one instance of Amish riots and looting.

Are you telling us that the true opposite of socialism is Amish Americans in the Heartland? If converting to an Amish lifestyle and moving to the US Heartland is the only definitive way to stave off riots, well then, I'll take the riots thank you very much.