Trump agrees to meet Kim Jong Un :-o

cecilia said:
the real reason North Korea stopped testing their nuclear weapons

North Korea nuclear test site has collapsed and may be out of action – China study

as soon as they can rebuild a new test site, BOOM!
Click to expand...

I'm aware of that. I'm sure the fact China is pissed as hell at NK for the environmental disaster near the border is helping force Kim's hand, but I don't believe for a second his intentions are anything but denuclearization at this point. Despite what some media outlets are reporting, his people are literally starving to death. One of the original conditions for denuclearization was he wanted a guarantee of safety for himself and his family. I'm sure this request was not just about the US, but his own people.

A lot of factors are playing into this, but it all looks to be legit. A lot of historic events have already come out of this. Kim Jung Un crossing the border into South Korea and the official end of the Korean War was not something any of us could have seen happening in our lifetime as recently as a few months ago. This appears to be as dramatic a full on surrender as humanly possible. Kim stops his nuclear program, North and South work towards reuniting, Sanctions are lifted, aid starts filtering in to help his starving people, and NK returns to the global community.

Here's hoping all goes the way it appears to be going.
 
cecilia said:
the real reason North Korea stopped testing their nuclear weapons

North Korea nuclear test site has collapsed and may be out of action – China study

as soon as they can rebuild a new test site, BOOM!
Click to expand...

Perhaps. But nuclear testing isn't an act of war. The US only stopped testing in 1992 and that was due to the signing of the Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty which was also likely precipitated by the reliance on testing simulations that had been calibrated by real tests, and the fact that the stockpiles of proven warheads was already high enough.

Nuclear tests are not only tests to see if your nukes works but tests to let other people see that your nukes work. The only conceivable use for nukes for North Korea would be to demonstrate that they had a capability to inflict damage if they were ever attack - they only have deterrent value. It would be absolutely impossible for NK to launch a first strike against anyone and survive the response. If they merely responded by nuking the south they are still basically shooting themselves in the foot as they would probably end up catching fallout and refugees.

It is even arguable that the new calculus that NK has a response to outside aggression has precipitated the current talks. you don't have to talk to anyone you can push around, only those who can push back.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
It is even arguable that the new calculus that NK has a response to outside aggression has precipitated the current talks. you don't have to talk to anyone you can push around, only those who can push back.
Click to expand...
we can't know what's in the head of a wacko like Kim.
But, from his actions, I don't think he's "reasonable". I think he's selfish. He likes having a test site because it makes him feel powerful and important.
I think he likes to saber rattle. I am very sure he will figure out a way to build another test site. Just because it's another toy in his box.

The people that are really worried are the guys in South Korea and China because they are right there - way to close for comfort. Frankly, it's up to them to solve this issue. I wish them luck.
 
cecilia said:
we can't know what's in the head of a wacko like Kim.
But, from his actions, I don't think he's "reasonable". I think he's selfish. He likes having a test site because it makes him feel powerful and important.
I think he likes to saber rattle. I am very sure he will figure out a way to build another test site. Just because it's another toy in his box.

The people that are really worried are the guys in South Korea and China because they are right there - way to close for comfort. Frankly, it's up to them to solve this issue. I wish them luck.
Click to expand...

None of that makes any sense. This sounds just like the typical propaganda claptrap. "He's crazy so we have to get him" talk of every lead-up to war to date. We have to kill everyone because they're all crazy so we can't trust them.
Everything they have done is reasonable to date if you think about it. Kim has advisers, he has "friends" whose opinions he has to keep in mind. Ruling is not as easy as it is in comic books and dictators don't wake up in the morning wondering what "evil" (mwuhuhu) they can do today.

Having a test site doesn't make him "feel" powerful and important, it makes him actually powerful and important - like when you get held up by a mugger with a gun - the gun isn't making him feel powerful, it makes him actually powerful. Kim is having to negotiate with some big world powers and with recent history it should be quite obvious that NOT having a nuclear program is the crazy path. Saddam and Qaddafi both gave up their nuclear ambitions under the assurance that the US (and co) would be trustworthy partners. Iran also made such an agreement and look where that is going these days.

he may or may not need another test site. What he has already done is demonstrate capabilities (which is what sputnik was about and what Apollo was about and what those satellite shoot-downs a few years were about ). What Kim needs now is to build his arsenal. The only purpose a test site would serve is if he wanted to test/demonstrate a new warhead. In the face of US aggression, demonstrating that you are willing to bite back if you are attacked is completely reasonable.
 
North Korea releases U.S. detainees, bows to another Trump demand

North Korean dictator Kim Jong-un has released three U.S. citizens detained for years in his horrific prison camps, surrendering to another of President Trump’s demands in advance of a planned historic summit between the two leaders whose countries have long been adversaries.

The liberal media being the liberal media are still trying to spin this as a negative.
 
To the complete horror of the Liberal Media in the USA, it looks like this is happening.

Poll: 78 Percent of South Koreans Trust Kim Jong-Un to Make a Nuclear Deal

A surprising new poll from the Korea Research Center found 78 percent of South Koreans claiming they trust North Korean dictator Kim Jong-un to reach a denuclearization agreement with South Korea and the United States.

Don't forget, North and South have been at war for 60 years until Trump's breakthrough.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
None of that makes any sense. This sounds just like the typical propaganda claptrap. "He's crazy so we have to get him" talk of every lead-up to war to date. We have to kill everyone because they're all crazy so we can't trust them.
Click to expand...
I never said that. He's crazy, sure, but that is NO excuse to start a war. I have ALWAYS been entirely and completely anti-war. War is a giant waste of resources and lives.

but why not admit when someone is a kook? I just think America needs to stay out of whatever discussions are going on between South Korea and North.

why introduce another nut into the mix?

Having a test site doesn't make him "feel" powerful and important, it makes him actually powerful and important - like when you get held up by a mugger with a gun - the gun isn't making him feel powerful, it makes him actually powerful. Kim is having to negotiate with some big world powers and with recent history it should be quite obvious that NOT having a nuclear program is the crazy path. Saddam and Qaddafi both gave up their nuclear ambitions under the assurance that the US (and co) would be trustworthy partners. Iran also made such an agreement and look where that is going these days.
Click to expand...
yeah, yeah, yeah. little man needs to feel potent.
I'm bored.
 
cecilia said:
I never said that. He's crazy, sure, but that is NO excuse to start a war.
Click to expand...

Your way of thinking here I find most perplexing. Calling someone crazy is what you do when you WANT a war with them. It's a way of pushing the population towards justifying violence by making the implicit claim that talking cannot work. You cannot negotiate with a crazy man, so they must call him crazy to prevent negotiation. The last thing the deep state wants is a sudden outbreak of peace.
yeah, yeah, yeah. little man needs to feel potent.
I'm bored.
Click to expand...
Clearly I cannot get you to understand by explaining it to you. Unfortunately I know of no other way for you to understand it. You seem to prefer the comic book narrative over a nuanced look at the complexities of the situation. I don't really understand why.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
Clearly I cannot get you to understand by explaining it to you. Unfortunately I know of no other way for you to understand it. You seem to prefer the comic book narrative over a nuanced look at the complexities of the situation. I don't really understand why.
Click to expand...

Well, thinking is hard. Nuance is hard. Insult is easy. Even among friends. As depressing as that is, it really explains a lot about the human condition, and nearly all of the internet.
 
JoBBo said:
The meeting has yet to happen and chances are high that it won't. That is not my opinion but based on remarks in both conservative and objective, excuse me, "evil liberal" media. Even the official White House statement was very cautious.
Click to expand...

Donald Trump: Date and Place Set for Summit with Kim Jong-un

President Donald Trump revealed that the date and place of his anticipated meeting with North Korean dictator Kim Jong-un were set, although he did not reveal any further details.

“The trip is being scheduled,” Trump said. “We now have a date and we have a location. We’ll be announcing it soon.”
 
Calling someone crazy is what you do when you WANT a war with them
Click to expand...
I'm not a diplomat. It's diplomats that have to be careful what they say and how they say it.

that's why they get this job and I don't (also, kim doesn't care what I say about him. It's not as if he's going to come here and read my posts). The real problem is when you assume an undiplomatic moron should be negotiating with another idiot. THAT is what causes wars.

I can be blunt. Plus, I have no patience with idiots. Whatever patience I had is now long gone.
 
cecilia said:
(also, kim doesn't care what I say about him. It's not as if he's going to come here and read my posts).
Click to expand...
Kim doesn't care why you say about him but what you say about him is based on what you have been told about him by a propaganda machine that wouldn't mind having a war with him. You don't have personal knowledge of him (very few do) but neither have you ever stopped to ask yourself (it would seem) whether what you have been told about him makes any sense. No ruler can rule alone. There are always partners and power brokers who have to play along to make it work. They can get behind someone ambitious, focused, cold blooded, as long as they are reliable, but not anyone erratic, unhinged or insane. Actually crazy people don't get to stay supreme leader for long.
The real problem is when you assume an undiplomatic moron should be negotiating with another idiot. THAT is what causes wars.
Click to expand...
The real problem is when you assume that's what's happening. Leaders can only hold sway so long as they have followers and it's a pretty competitive arena at head of state level. What Trump has had a pretty long career before becoming president and he had to be consistently high performing (even including lying and double crossing) to maintain his status. Idiots and morons simply can't manage that. Kim has also had a a few years in his job and, unlike some members of his family, he is still alive.
I also think that your theory about what causes wars is naive. Generally the cause of wars is a valuable resource (could be mineral, territorial, strategic etc) and the perception that you have the required forces to capture that resource. After that calculation all that remains is spinning the propaganda until your population will support the war.
 
DczFVU2VwAEs8YO.jpg
 
 
 
This is turning into an old fashioned comedy-farce. Getting Bolton back in the band has also added an entirely predictable dash of apocalyptic hilarity:
Donald Trump's warning to Kim Jong-un: make a deal or suffer same fate as Gaddafi
Asked about ‘Libya model’, Trump says: ‘That model … was total decimation. That model would take place if we don’t make a deal’

Donald Trump has threatened Kim Jong-un with the same fate as Muammar Gaddafi if the North Korean leader “doesn’t make a deal” on his nuclear weapons programme.

The US president issued the threat at the White House when he was asked about the recent suggestion by his national security adviser, John Bolton, that the “Libyan model” be a template for dealing with North Korea at a summit between Trump and Kim planned for 12 June in Singapore.

The model Bolton was referring to was Gaddafi’s agreement in December 2003 to surrender his embryonic nuclear weapons programme, which included allowing his uranium centrifuges to be shipped out to the US.

But Trump appeared to be unaware of that agreement, and interpreted the “Libyan model” to mean the 2011 Nato intervention in Libya in support of an insurrection, which ultimately led to Gaddafi’s murder at the hands of rebels in Tripoli.
 
JoBBo said:
The meeting has yet to happen and chances are high that it won't. That is not my opinion but based on remarks in both conservative and objective, excuse me, "evil liberal" media. Even the official White House statement was very cautious.
Click to expand...

White House: Trump Leaving Singapore Early as North Korea Talks Move Quicker than Planned

President Donald Trump plans to depart early from his unprecedented summit with Kim Jong-un, the White House said Monday, declaring that nuclear talks with North Korea have moved “more quickly than expected.”

Trump had been scheduled to fly back to Washington on Wednesday morning after spending Tuesday with the North Korean leader in Singapore. But on the eve of the summit, he altered his schedule, opting to return at about 8 p.m. on Tuesday after a full day of meetings with Kim — almost 15 hours earlier than anticipated.

“The discussions between the United States and North Korea are ongoing and have moved more quickly than expected,” the White House said in a statement.

The Liberal Media and Never-Trumpers were wrong once again. The meeting happened and is wrapping up quicker than expected. I think it is no coincidence that the Hollywood Left are currently in full meltdown mode. We'll see what is the final resolution of this summit, but things continue to look up.
 
cecilia said:
I never said that. He's crazy, sure, but that is NO excuse to start a war. I have ALWAYS been entirely and completely anti-war. War is a giant waste of resources and lives.

but why not admit when someone is a kook? I just think America needs to stay out of whatever discussions are going on between South Korea and North.

why introduce another nut into the mix?


yeah, yeah, yeah. little man needs to feel potent.
I'm bored.
Click to expand...
I doubt he's crazy, in the sense that he does not know what he's doing.
I doubt also very much that he has the final say in that country.
I even doubt the elite of the country has the final say in it's politics. I use to think it's just China's barking dog.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top