UK NHS Rationing Surgeries

redrumloa said:
Too vague of a question. We don't have a one size fits all health care system.
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The question isn't vague but the answer so far is. It will be a long answer but you haven't started the process yet.
 
Dammy said:
Why don't you ask the elites of Canada? http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...my-choice-danny-williams-says/article1477522/
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Good lord. You mean that we have coverage AND we can still chose to go elsewhere and pay for it out of pocket. Egads - FASCISM!!! Or is it COMMUNISM!!! I can't remember which one it is that allows you to chose.

By the way - you DID read the article all the way through, right?

P.S. I have a friend who isn't the premier of anything and certainly couldn't afford all that travel and Miami healthcare. He got a multiple bypass just a few months back. He's doing well and he isn't deeply in debt because of it.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
How the US system rations.
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Scary stuff:
Ultimately, it led two middle-class parents with good jobs, two major health-insurance policies and a house in suburbia into foreclosure and bankruptcy.
"To this day," Simon said, "we still have creditors calling us, wanting to talk to Ellie. They'll say things like, 'We want to discuss how she's going to take care of this overdue bill.' I just lose it."
Ellie Sutherland died June 26. She was two months shy of her fourth birthday.
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researchers at Harvard and Ohio universities reported that 62 percent of all bankruptcies were related to medical debt. An American family, they said, filed for bankruptcy in the aftermath of illness every 90 seconds — and three-quarters of those families had health insurance.
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Marsha tried to sign Ellie up for Social Security disability, and when that failed, for Medicaid. Even after the family was down to a single income, though, the couple made too much to qualify.
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62% of bankruptcies?

I don't have any statistics for the UK but if it's even 1% I would be astonished.

And "making too much money to qualify" for medical help? That's horrific.
 
Robert said:
Scary stuff:

62% of bankruptcies?

I don't have any statistics for the UK but if it's even 1% I would be astonished.

And "making too much money to qualify" for medical help? That's horrific.
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welcome to Ameeeerica

and people want to know why I will NEVER go to a hospital???
I'd rather be dead than in debt
 
cecilia said:
welcome to Ameeeerica

and people want to know why I will NEVER go to a hospital???
I'd rather be dead than in debt
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That's a bit extreme but I take your point. :-D
 
Robert said:
Scary stuff:

62% of bankruptcies?

I don't have any statistics for the UK but if it's even 1% I would be astonished.

And "making too much money to qualify" for medical help? That's horrific.
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Then another group went back to that 1997 study and came up with 17% and not 62%. Hospital debt is laughable, pay them $10 @ month and there isn't anything legally they can do to you. Most illegal aliens never pay a dime for any hospital services.
 
Robert said:
Before I download another PDF, any chance of a synopsis?
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Just look at the wait times for people to jumping through the hoops to get that procedure they need.
 
Dammy said:
Just look at the wait times for people to jumping through the hoops to get that procedure they need.
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Yes, there are increasing concerns over waiting times on the NHS.

However, there's also the second option (equivalent to your *only* option) if you don't want to wait and can afford it. Private medical insurance.

So I'm not ereally sure what your point is.

If it's that the US system is somehow better than the UK system, that doesn't stand up to even minimal scrutiny.

If it's that the UK system is deteriorating and could eventually end up as bad as ther US, I completely agree. (Although I'm reasonably confident I'll be several decades dead by then.)
 
Dammy said:
Then another group went back to that 1997 study and came up with 17% and not 62%.
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Only 17% of bankruptcies related to medical debt?

Well, whoopity-doo for the wonderful US Medical system!
Making poeple bankrupt since nineteen-unwellity-bust!

Seriously, 17% is still out-f*cking-rageous.
No-one should be made bankrupt because they need medical attention.
Not 62%,
Not 17%.
Not even 1%.

And which group was this anyway? Link?

pay them $10 @ month and there isn't anything legally they can do to you.
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So, none of this 17% (or 62%, depending on your source) could afford a tenner a month?
I find that somewhat difficult to believe.
 
Robert said:
So, none of this 17% (or 62%, depending on your source) could afford a tenner a month?
I find that somewhat difficult to believe.
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For the most part, this is true.
 
Robert said:
"the most part"? Meaning sometimes it *isn't* true, so I was right?
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If you go to a public hospital and can't pay the bill in full, you make regular payments and the hospital cannot come after you. The key here is you must make regular payments without missing a payment.

I say most part because I don't believe this applies the same for private practice as it does for public hospitals.
 
redrumloa said:
If you go to a public hospital and can't pay the bill in full, you make regular payments and the hospital cannot come after you.
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How many hospitals are public and how many are private? Do you have public hospitals near you?
 
Robert said:
However, there's also the second option (equivalent to your *only* option) if you don't want to wait and can afford it. Private medical insurance.
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The problem with two tiers (public/private) is that the private medical companies skim off the wealthy patients & doctors from the public system - which increases wait times in the public system and leads to higher use of the more expensive doctors to avoid waits. It becomes a bit of an arms race as more people slosh over to try to get the same service they used to get under the public system (but for much more money) and gradually undermines support for the public system.

This is by design. The big, mostly US, healthcare providers need new sheep to fleece and have been relentlessly lobbying countries with public healthcare to let them in.

Personally I think the issue of wait times for the wealthy (that's what it's really about - the wealthy can't see why they have to be treated equally as everyone else) is to let them buy preferred access in the public system. It would be based on a market value of each persons health as viewed by that person himself. The economics of a two tier system are not very fair because in the event of a life threatening condition a poor person would be willing to give all he has to be cured but a rich person would not be able to pay any more than that i.e. all he has. However, in dollar terms the poor persons $100 is much less than the rich persons $100,000,000. So how to balance life worth in dollars? Let patients trade their lives for dollars.

Cases are attended to in the order they come in so everyone has a place in line. If you have a lot of money you can trade places with the person directly ahead of you for a sum that you negotiate.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
The problem with two tiers (public/private) is that the private medical companies skim off the wealthy patients & doctors from the public system - which increases wait times in the public system and leads to higher use of the more expensive doctors to avoid waits. It becomes a bit of an arms race as more people slosh over to try to get the same service they used to get under the public system (but for much more money) and gradually undermines support for the public system.

This is by design.
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And I agree with every word of that. Fortunately for me, as I said earlier, I expect the full erosion to take a lot longer than I'll be around for.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
How many hospitals are public and how many are private? Do you have public hospitals near you?
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When I say public I mean hospitals that have emergency rooms. Any hospital that has an emergency room is at least a quasi-public hospital. By law emergency rooms cannot turn anyone away regardless of ability to pay.
 
How does the public/private system work?

-EDIT-

I mean what's difference between the two, etc.
 
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