Why do seemingly rational people believe conspiracies?

I think the question is valid as to what and how are the researchers defining 'conspiracy theory'. What I assume they mean is the ... " conspiracy theory is any unconventional theory about current or historical events, with the connotation that that theory is unfounded, outlandish, or irrational or in some way unworthy of serious consideration. In this sense, the term is sometimes used to refer to events with which no association to an actual "conspiracy" in the legal sense " Conspiracy theories are often built on unreliable or unavailable evidence (an assumed belief if you would) and illogical interrelationships.
 
Would the secret negotiation of international laws for the benefit of a few insiders and the detriment of the vast majority of humanity be considered a "conspiracy theory"?


Things are changing - there are more conspiracy theorists every day because there is more information every day. I remember back in the 90's when people who said "Bilderberg" or "Tri-Lateral Commission" or "Bohemian Grove" were nut cases because such things were "imaginary", but now they are pretty much common knowledge so instead the elites have had to switch to saying that they aren't all that important. That's a big change over twenty years from before the internet existed to now. People are less trusting and more likely to accept conspiracy theories (theories based on groups of humans getting together to covertly work for their own benefit) as opposed to "coincidence theories", "mere incompetence theories" or "hand of God" theories because we have seen over recent time just how many conspiracies operate in the world. The time between "no-one would do something like that" to the time when someone publishes the internal documents has grown ever shorter despite increased persecutions for revealing crimes.
 
What I assume they mean is the ... " conspiracy theory is any unconventional theory about current or historical events, with the connotation that that theory is unfounded, outlandish, or irrational or in some way unworthy of serious consideration.

And I believe that that is a connotation that has been deliberately cultivated by certain classes specifically to muddy the waters - stretching "conspiracy theory" to cover outlandish and crazy world views and then implying that all unconventional (not given by the authorities) explanation is as bad as the nuttiest "aliens kidnapped Elvis" story.

It would be like the word "Liberal" has been turned to mean something that no Liberal would recognize. It's part of the political theory that Orwell picked up on, the constant effort by those in power to destroy or pervert words that are useful in depicting how the world really works and turning them into caricatures and nonsense. If you can't talk about the problem (without being labeled a kook or without using words that have become kooky) then you can't start to solve the problem. Get everyone speaking Gangsta and watching television shows where a coherent thought isn't carried for more than 5 seconds and you'll eventually have a population that can barely understand that there is a problem never mind begin to solve it. So long as they can understand the mechanics of a broom or shovel - that's all they need. There once was a time when being able to do simple arithmetic was at least required to handle cash but these days you just wave items in front of a laser and the machine adds it up, then you wave a bit of plastic in front of the NFC and you're done. No counting required.

--

When playing chess it is best to assume that the other player moves his pieces with the intent of winning.
 
Would the secret negotiation of international laws for the benefit of a few insiders and the detriment of the vast majority of humanity be considered a "conspiracy theory"?
Nations and business have been negotiating laws at all times. If there's some some strong proveable facts it may be a conspiracy reality. If it's paranoia because we don't know what's going on when Presidents, CEOs, and such get together it's probably a conspiracy theory.

Things are changing - there are more conspiracy theorists every day because there is more information every day.
There's also the ease of reaching out and finding that 1% group that's as fricking crazy as they are. This creates an artificial validation that their crazy opinions are indeed correct. Common delusions are easier to share and be comforted in that one can find other crazies to support their craziness. Information certainly is more rapidly and readily available. So is the blessing of fellow tin hatters around the globe.

And I believe that that is a connotation that has been deliberately cultivated by certain classes specifically to muddy the waters - stretching "conspiracy theory" to cover outlandish and crazy world views and then implying that all unconventional (not given by the authorities) explanation is as bad as the nuttiest "aliens kidnapped Elvis" story.
So you have a conspiracy theory about how conspiracy theories are purposefully released by some unknown mysterious controlling power to cover up their real conspiracies. Fair, enough.
 
@ faethor ... do you think fox news has an agenda?
do you think rupert murdoch has an agenda?
 
@ faethor ... do you think fox news has an agenda?
do you think rupert murdoch has an agenda?
Everyone has an agenda, so yes. One aspect of a conspiracy and a conspiracy theory is that it's a secret agenda. If we view what Murdoch and leadership of Fox have said, and have said in court, I don't think their agenda is anywhere near a secret.
 
I disagree. Almost every "conspiracy theory" I've ever come across is of the "educated guess" variety.

Never went to the 9/11 for truth forums then? Man they were so much fun.

Some of the gems that came out of there were:

Thermite that could cut horizontally.

The airliners were in fact military cargo aircraft. (The "pods" theory - this one even showed up on the BBC's Question Time)

The aircraft were holographic, with the buildings actually being taken down via controlled demolition. (The evidence being some of the most heavily artifacted GIFs I've ever seen)

But my all time fave:

They were destroyed by an orbital weapons platform. (This one was discussed for weeks in a serious manner, with more than a few "disinfoagents" and "shills" getting banned for dissent.)





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The airliners were in fact military cargo aircraft. (The "pods" theory - this one even showed up on the BBC's Question Time)

The aircraft were holographic, with the buildings actually being taken down via controlled demolition. (The evidence being some of the most heavily artifacted GIFs I've ever seen)

Truthers hate the pod people and the hologram nuts. They believe that they are dupes and/or disinformation agents brought in to sling mud and discredit truthers by association. If you have pod people to make fun of then there is no reason to talk about the multiple hijack exercises that were going on that day that seem to have confused the initial response, nor who ordered them, nor the matter of the destruction of the audio tapes of air traffic controller debriefings that happened immediately after. We don't have to talk about the Mossad agents that seem to have been tracking the hijackers all over the US and somehow failed to to notify the proper authorities when the operation went live. If you look at the known progression of from before the hijackers arrived, to the suppression of information from German intelligence, the suppression of FBI investigations into the hijackers, the complete blockage of the passing of FBI information to the CIA and vice versa and the fact that the administration tried very hard to ignore the call for an investigation and only gave in when they got a promise that the investigation would not touch certain areas and that Bush and Cheney, when finally dragged into the mix, refused to testify under oath had to be questioned together without any recordings being made. Want to see a couple of schmucks get the same kind of deal down at the local police station?

It stinks from bottom to top and every major agency involved either had friends or appointees at the top and could legitimately institute policy to prevent the system from working to stop the plot.

Oh, but some people think the planes were holograms so that means that any suggestion that there was anything nefarious going on is just as crazy.
 
Truthers hate the pod people and the hologram nuts. They believe that they are dupes and/or disinformation agents brought in to sling mud and discredit truthers by association.

I know what I saw, and what I saw was these people, who in some cases had been a part of that forum from its founding getting a lot of support from that forum and even mod support.

As for the rest... Your Apophenia is showing.
 
Everyone has an agenda, so yes. One aspect of a conspiracy and a conspiracy theory is that it's a secret agenda. If we view what Murdoch and leadership of Fox have said, and have said in court, I don't think their agenda is anywhere near a secret.

So if it comes out in court then it stops being a conspiracy and becomes an agenda.

Nations and business have been negotiating laws at all times. If there's some some strong proveable facts it may be a conspiracy reality. If it's paranoia because we don't know what's going on when Presidents, CEOs, and such get together it's probably a conspiracy theory.
Because it's secret, it IS a conspiracy. A conspiracy embodies an agenda (the agenda is the purpose of the conspiracy) and so long as it is kept secret (or advertisement of the agenda is avoided) then it is conspiracy. Most of the work the CIA does is covert and is conspiracy - but surely someone would talk so it could never work, right? - and much of what goes on inside corporations is conspiracy (so we voluntarily do not divulge privileged information when we talk about our work since we want to beat our competitors and keep our jobs). If it's a group of people making plans in secret then it's a conspiracy. Conspiracies have an agenda. Some people say out loud what there agenda is because they have an agenda that they believe other people will agree with and this will help move their agenda forward. Other groups of people have agendas that cannot work if they are publicized because it would be easy to thwart if it were known or it would be opposed by the majority of people if it were known.

When you look at an "agenda" like the TPP, for example, they work hard to keep the agreement they are working on secret and that makes it a conspiracy. Why do they keep it a secret? So that the people can't object to it and so that there is no news to talk about because if people knew what was being agreed to and how that agreement would override any laws that the people might make through their governments then they might realize that what is being negotiated by private companies is a new supernational (and privately controlled) level of government that does not have the good of the people in mind. If it was something that the people would like then the politicians would be in front of the cameras talking every night about what a great new set of laws they were working on.

So conspiracies are merely a subset of agendas and not a wholly other kind of beast. What you and other people seem to want to do is ringfence the word "conspiracy" so that you can use it to mean "theories I think are crazy" and that is exactly the way you are supposed to think in the newspeak. By using the word "conspiracy" accurately and conflating it with the use of the word "conspiracy" to mean "crazy" all real conspiracies become crazy in the public mind. It's just a form of branding, which is big business and as old as the state, what today we call PR but used to be called propaganda.

So you have a conspiracy theory about how conspiracy theories are purposefully released by some unknown mysterious controlling power to cover up their real conspiracies. Fair, enough.

More or less. It's like the way creationists try to argue against evolution. Piltdown man, they yell. Yes, this one quickly debunked fraud is so outrageous it means the whole of science is a fraud. It was some "scientists" who believed in the Piltdown man therefore all scientists are idiots. People with more familiarity with the vastness of the scientific knowledge concering evolution aer much less likely to fall for this sort of thing but most people don't seem to know enough to recognize how bad the argument is and who doesn't like joining in and shaking their heads saying "tut tut, stupid scientist. What a bunch of morons".
It's not an outlandish technique and surely you can see how it would work, right? You aren't arguing that it couldn't work, are you? Perhaps you are just thinking that no-one would do such a thing, because it's so Machiavellian. Don't forget that "the Prince" was drawn from history and showed how certain techniques had been successful at controlling populations. It wasn't just a fairy tale. But still maybe you are thinking that in our enlightened times people don't still think that way. Surely modern people in the last few hundred years have evolved out of the basic drives and behaviours that they evolved into during the proceeding millions of years. You can't imagine yourself being so cold and self serving and devious so you can't see that other people could be. You can't imagine yourself sodomizing a five year old child, then strangling him to death with your bare hands, hacking his body into bits and burying the bits in the woods - therefore no-one ever does that, right? The vast majority of people are like you, they couldn't even imagine doing things like that. They aren't the people we need to worry about. But some small number of people will have no qualms about lying to you and using you and some of those people get control of entire agencies and sometimes countries and by telling the right kinds of stories they can make good people do bad things. You think the average Joe would drop bombs by remote control on a wedding party if it wasn't his job?
 
Never went to the 9/11 for truth forums then? Man they were so much fun.
Though the best was that God cared so much he left behind a cross of girders to show us our love. How creative of God to create a cross out of a building built with a crosspatch of girders.
 
So if it comes out in court then it stops being a conspiracy and becomes an agenda.
I think the problem in definition is there are real conspiracies and unreal conspiracies. A conspiracy theory is an accusation of a secret cover up. Once a conspiracy theory is proven, such as in court, we typically use other terms for that activity such as - agenda, or conspiracy, or cover-up. In the case of Fox News they've had many public statements, even outside of course, of the purpose for their business. I argue they've been very open that their agenda is one a profit driven right-wing news channel.

Most of the work the CIA does is covert and is conspiracy - but surely someone would talk so it could never work, right? - and much of what goes on inside corporations is conspiracy (so we voluntarily do not divulge privileged information when we talk about our work since we want to beat our competitors and keep our jobs).
I'd disagree with your definition. Conspiracy Theories are usually activities that are meant to skirt rules with a phenomial impact. You may believe that businesses are evil and are always trying to break the system (BTW that's it's own paranoid Conspiracy Theory.) But, in many businesses are legit and work at trying to operate and make a profit within the rules. In general business planning is not something most people would consider a conspiracy. So what happened in particular would lead us to one definition or the other.

If it's a group of people making plans in secret then it's a conspiracy.
I wouldn't call Fluffy and his friends making plans to buy tickets and have beers at tomorrow night's professional soccer game a conspiracy, nor would most people. (My Conspiracy Theory is someone here has a far too overreaching definition of conspiracy.)

What you and other people seem to want to do is ringfence the word "conspiracy" so that you can use it to mean "theories I think are crazy" and that is exactly the way you are supposed to think in the newspeak.
Most people don't assign Conspiracy to the secret shopping list that's never written down of Fluffy and his wife. In general when we're talking about a Conspiracy Theory it's a secret planned and covert action to make a major impact against the current working models.
 
Let's not forget the Chemtrails. I was physically threatened by people for being too quick to dismiss that "theory". Admittedly, I believe I used some choice words to describe the feasibility of the chemtrails concept, which may also have lead to the passionate response....

@Fluffy
Truthers hate the pod people and the hologram nuts.
Well there's various degrees of nuts. I distance myself from a lot of the crazy theories so that my own arguments don't get lumped in with craziness. You can be the smartest guy in the world but all you gotta do is say one crazy thing and you're crazy for life after that. In all honesty, that's why I attack your posts sometimes with more passion than I would, say, Metalman's. You and I agree on a number of things but at the same time we disagree on others. I want to make it clear that I don't support some of your posts that I'd consider, well, outlandish (I was gonna say "crazy", but decided to take a moment to find a less offensive word. Just for you :D ).
 
Though the best was that God cared so much he left behind a cross of girders to show us our love. How creative of God to create a cross out of a building built with a crosspatch of girders.

Damn I forgot about that one lol!

Great times :-D

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Certainly, there are advantages to being crazy. :D
 
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