iron lady dies... rust in peace war criminal

the_leander said:
or that her actions are considered so damning as to make her gender seem irrelevant given the context.
Click to expand...

i tend to lean that way, should i revel in the contributions to handicap sports, made by that pistorious feller? well i'm not going to. i don't care what obstacles one overcomes on their rise to the top; but if you turn into a dick that kills people, i'm gonna call you a dick. no matter how many times you helped a little old lady across the street. when the actions of your hands stop performing their primary healing/helping function and you cross over to murder with malice, or by neglect, then no respect shall you garner(from me anyway) for any of your prior good works....
 
the_leander said:
At the time there simply wasn't a credible opposition to her, labour were a spent force and their ties to the union movement was toxic.

Her solution however was ultimately just as bad.

Consider how despite having almost identical issues at the time, France managed to blunt the worst of their unions excesses without wiping out the economic viability of half the country.
Click to expand...
Almost identical? You forget the cultural impact the French revolution had. Lineage and social classes are much more of an issue in the UK than on the mainland of Europe. Something like the House of Lords is really unthinkable here.
The role of royalty, if there's royalty, is reduced to ceremonial and diplomatic functions.
I think it's something you still have to deal with.
 
Speelgoedmannetje said:
Almost identical? You forget the cultural impact the French revolution had. Lineage and social classes are much more of an issue in the UK than on the mainland of Europe. Something like the House of Lords is really unthinkable here.
The role of royalty, if there's royalty, is reduced to ceremonial and diplomatic functions.
I think it's something you still have to deal with.
Click to expand...

By identical I meant the issues, not the cultures. In this case over powerful, divisive and damaging unions coupled with a manufacturing and energy production base that was hopelessly inefficient. The French solution was to couple the scaling down of the two bases with strong efforts to provide alternate sources of employment and training. With the unions they brought them to heel by giving an ultimatum: Work with us or we'll leave your communities to rot like the British...

Sent from my ARCHOS 80G9 using Tapatalk HD
 
the_leander said:
That she isn't viewed as fitting female archetypes, or that her actions are considered so damning as to make her gender seem irrelevant given the context
Click to expand...
You don't think the unions have used her gender to display her as a 'heartless woman' stereotype, as opposite to the 'caring, motherly woman' stereotype?
 
Speelgoedmannetje said:
You don't think the unions have used her gender to display her as a 'heartless woman' stereotype, as opposite to the 'caring, motherly woman' stereotype?
Click to expand...

They view her as evil, wholly and completely, or as an archetypal Tory. Her gender rarely gets a mention. As to the past, even then it was more common to tie her evilness to her being a Tory then a woman.

Sent from my ARCHOS 80G9 using Tapatalk HD
 
the_leander said:
By identical I meant the issues, not the cultures. In this case over powerful, divisive and damaging unions coupled with a manufacturing and energy production base that was hopelessly inefficient. The French solution was to couple the scaling down of the two bases with strong efforts to provide alternate sources of employment and training. With the unions they brought them to heel by giving an ultimatum: Work with us or we'll leave your communities to rot like the British...
Click to expand...
Would that kind of 'soft' approach have survived British politics? (considering the cultural differences)
 
Speelgoedmannetje said:
Would that kind of 'soft' approach have survived British politics? (considering the cultural differences)
Click to expand...

The french plan quite possibly would have worked. In some areas that were considered less "troublesome" alternatives were later offered, the Nissan plant in Newcastle for instance was greatly expanded to take up the slack following the closure of the industry there. It's no coincidence that the most militant towns and cities in the north were also the ones that received the least help.

The Tory party are called the nasty party over here for a reason.

Sent from my ARCHOS 80G9 using Tapatalk HD
 
From Russell Brand on Margaret Thatcher: 'I always felt sorry for her children'


Norman Tebbit, one of Thatcher's acolytes and fellow "Munsters evacuee", said when the National Union of Mineworkers eventually succumbed to the military onslaught and starvation over which she presided: "We didn't just break the strike, we broke the spell." The spell he was referring to is the unseen bond that connects us all and prevents us from being subjugated by tyranny. The spell of community.
Click to expand...
She broke the will of the British people and enslaved them.
 
Speelgoedmannetje said:
You don't think the unions have used her gender to display her as a 'heartless woman' stereotype, as opposite to the 'caring, motherly woman' stereotype?
Click to expand...

FluffyMcDeath said:
From Russell Brand on Margaret Thatcher: 'I always felt sorry for her children'
.
Click to expand...

I had some trouble keeping a straight face, I must admit, as I sat behind the glass, with all the other lesbos knitting their CND T-shirts. "Whatever you do," the PM simpered, on a note that made the little dials in the control room quiver something horrible, "try to set aside one afternoon a week for your little one. It makes so much difference to their sense of being loved; do you know what I mean? – and important to their mum!" When I recalled the boy Mark at the age of four already programmed to transfer his own frozen supper from the deep freeze to the microwave I had to allow myself a wry smile.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/09/margaret-thatcher-women

a whole afternoon a week? speel i'm not so sure the unions did anything to help her "heartless image", but i'd wager she did the most damage herself...
 
thatcher-death-day.jpg
 
cecilia said:
that IS interesting....and shows how complex she was
Click to expand...
Complex? I don't know about complex. She bought into an economic myth with single mindedness (egged on by the people who could see their fortunes in it) and whatever you can say about benefits being higher and the NHS being better off, a lot of that wasn't Maggie, but what Maggie did (as did Reagan) was to knock away the foundations of the state which has brought us to the point that the wealth of the UK (and the US) are no longer the property of the people, but of a few oligarchs. Whatever she may have thought about the value of the NHS and the value of paying women to raise their children, she started the ball rolling that ultimately made it so that the government couldn't afford to do those things. I don't think that bloody mindedness in the pursuit of a stupid policy makes a person great. You could argue that it takes a charismatic leader to lead a million people off a cliff, but a good leader should see the danger in a cliff and lead the people away.
 
nothing but zionist neocons to see here, only then we called them cold warriors... they traded peace and prosperity for a perpetual state of profit and war... no heroes here... :(... there could have been...
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
Complex? I don't know about complex. She bought into an economic myth with single mindedness (egged on by the people who could see their fortunes in it) and whatever you can say about benefits being higher and the NHS being better off, a lot of that wasn't Maggie, but what Maggie did (as did Reagan) was to knock away the foundations of the state which has brought us to the point that the wealth of the UK (and the US) are no longer the property of the people, but of a few oligarchs. Whatever she may have thought about the value of the NHS and the value of paying women to raise their children, she started the ball rolling that ultimately made it so that the government couldn't afford to do those things. I don't think that bloody mindedness in the pursuit of a stupid policy makes a person great. You could argue that it takes a charismatic leader to lead a million people off a cliff, but a good leader should see the danger in a cliff and lead the people away.
Click to expand...
You seem to think my use of the word "complex" implied I was adding a value judgment to her. I was not.

I don't agree with her policies but i think she was a complicated human being
 
cecilia said:
You seem to think my use of the word "complex" implied I was adding a value judgment to her. I was not.
I don't agree with her policies but i think she was a complicated human being
Click to expand...
I think you read too much in Fluffy's opinion rather than the point he is making that she wasn't complex as she did not understand the consequences on the long term for the UK.
She was just following the Neoliberal hype.
And, simple people never change their opinion, as she did.
 
robert l. bentham said:
a whole afternoon a week? speel i'm not so sure the unions did anything to help her "heartless image", but i'd wager she did the most damage herself...
Click to expand...
I don't know much about the UK politics and media back in those days, but I'd say unions wouldn't express themselves as such as it would not leave options open for negotiation, but the newspapers could, as a proxy.
As they always do.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top