Latest Xbox 3 rumors

faethor

faethor

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http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=29714

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Appears to be an AMD CPU + GPU combination.

I hope it can do 4K video and doesn't play around with the great controller layout. HDMI in is interesting, seemingly confirms the DVR recording rumors.
 
Isn't the GPU the AMD Southern Islands (Radeon 7X00) GPU? Same as the PS4? I thought the CPU was some kind of PowerPPC, or something else exotic. The PS4 is said to be on an all AMD platform, which means it'll probably be outdated before it's even announced. Hopefully it'll use Steamroller cores, if they're out by then. And hopefully winning the GPU core for both the xbox and PS4 will keep AMD alive for at least another 6 years or so.

Btw, the controller has always been the main reason I never liked the xbox. I find it funny that so many people consider it to be a great controller. I find it asymmetrical and that rubs me the wrong way. I hope the PS4 maintains the PS3 remote, but I doubt it.
 
Seems like the GPU will be Southern Islands based. Of course how similar to the PS4 will be interesting. Is there customization in one or the other? For example, the 360 GPU is not just out of the box but customized for the purpose.

Overall I think what we'll see next gen is a head to head Linux (PS4) vs Windows (Xbox) gaming fight. Perhaps they'll be able to survive together? We'll see.

Yes the 360 controller is asymmetric. At home my wife and fight about symmetry all the time. She likes everything centered and symmetric. I fan the magazines out on the coffee table to piss her off. (Okay not quite but I've thought of that but we'd have to have magazines.)
... Speaking of controllers - the Dual Shock (PS1-PS3) used an X, a Box, a 360, and a triangle for it's buttons. Not sure how I missed that all these years. I wonder if that was more than coincidence...
 
The interesting thing for Sony is that they really need this thing to sell. They're in a rough financial situation, and on that front, MS wins. Although, MS certainly isn't at it's peak either, but can likely absorb a failure better than Sony can at the moment. Anyway, the PS4 needs to get many things right, including performance and price and needs a really strong launch with a long list of great launch titles. But I wonder if they can do it. I'm sure they'll continue some of their in house brands like the amazing Uncharted series and maybe something new and exciting from the makers of Little Big Planet, and maybe get another Metal Gear Solid exclusive (and no Raiden doesn't count). But they'll need even more, and that more perhaps is to start treating their customers with respect. I know the industry is cut throat and the profit margins are thin, but yanking features away really doesn't help them in the long run either. And the war on used games needs to end as well. I'll refuse to by a next gen console if they make it so you can't buy used games. Screw that!
 
Whatever happened to the days of games pushing technology?
The GPU will be way better of course especially with the ESRAM, but unless they've beefed up the vector units the CPU won't even be as powerful as the Cell in the PS3!
 
minator said:
Whatever happened to the days of games pushing technology?
The GPU will be way better of course especially with the ESRAM, but unless they've beefed up the vector units the CPU won't even be as powerful as the Cell in the PS3!
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Yep. I read an article about this somewhere a few months back, that the next gen consoles will not be bleeding edge by any stretch. And it also seems they're putting all they got into the GPU and consider the CPU less important. I wonder if online gaming has anything to do with that? When playing BF3 online, it's the central server that does most of the math (although I suspect that they cheat and the local machine does the same calculations and then compares the results with what comes back from the server and the server trumps the local math, so I guess you probably still need a good CPU for online games making my point rather pointless). However, even GPU wise they really only need to optimize for 1080P devices, or maybe UltraHD (which they'll likely call the next HD standard, which I still think they should just call it HDx2, but whatever) and of course 3D which the PS3 can already do. What else do they need? More FPS? That's guaranteed, and the next gen consoles have tons more memory than the previous gen, so that should make a big difference as well. I also read that there have been hints of SSDs being part of the package, so maybe load screens will be a thing of the past? Not holding my breath on that one, but that would be nice.

Speaking of SSDs, I got a $500 gift card for FutureShop and was considering a Crucial M4 256GB. That would spice up my main system. Of course, I also want a gfx card for it (the one built into my i5-2500K barely cuts it for desktop use), and I need to replace my router with a newer one that does stuff on the 5Ghz spectrum as the 2.4Ghz 802.11g protocol gets trounced by the baby monitor (even though it says it's wifi friendly - it isn't) not to mention 5 other routers in the area (looking at the RT-N66U but would prefer the ac66U if Futureshop would just sell the damn thing). And of course some more ram would be nice and I really need to replace my media server PC. But more likely than not, I'll probably end up buying a dish washer.

Gotta love first world problems. :D
 
The stats looks pretty conservative and plausible for the expected release of holidays 2013.

I'm kinda interested about that HDMI In. An interesting thing to tack on a console. Wonder if it'll be able to decode and use that video, or if it's just a pass-through of sorts. With some of Microsoft's plays toward taking over the television, I wonder if it is some thought of controlling a cable box/dvr type function...

The GPU will be way better of course especially with the ESRAM, but unless they've beefed up the vector units the CPU won't even be as powerful as the Cell in the PS3!
Click to expand...

Well, powerful in what way? In certain specialized benchmark cases that no one has figured out how to optimize much actual code to... You're probably correct. In general purpose computing with the vast majority of existing codebase and tools, though, an 8 core x64 will spank a Cell. Heck, in the majority of cases, a lowly dual core i3 will spank a Cell.

Btw, the controller has always been the main reason I never liked the xbox. I find it funny that so many people consider it to be a great controller. I find it asymmetrical and that rubs me the wrong way.
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You say "asymmetrical" like it's a bad thing. It looks kinda goofy... But I find, in practice, that it works very well once you're used to it. The majority of the time on most games you want the left analog under your left thumb, and the buttons under your right thumb. The layout handles this case very well, and is quite comfortable. The right analog (usually specialized movements) is an easy right thumb drop away when you need it. The d-pad (usually used only for cycling options, etc) is an easy left thumb drop away from the left stick. Though I certainly wouldn't complain if they moved the "Start" button a little further away from X... It's a bit too easy to clip it when moving your thumb from the right analog back up to the X button. Sure, it's an ugly duck, but it's comfortable, durable, and reasonably precise. That's why it won me over for PC gaming, as well. Most PC controllers lack one or more of those attributes.
 
@Glaucus,
Both companies need this machine to sell. Sony has had good/great consoles in the past. The problem they've run into is hardware is now a commodity and they aren't that strong with software. Software, now that's Microsoft's bailiwick. And as you noted Sony is still taking losses, even from it's gaming division the PS3. They clearly overplanned last gen. The PS3 is amazing and amazingly complicated to get true performance out is costly in man hours.

Limiting game to a 1 play per console is a bad idea. Though both Sony and Microsoft look to be headed in that direction. There's very few new games I buy on day one. Instead I wait for the returns or the sales to hit, if I'm interested.


@iWrath,
HDMI in is indeed interesting. I think it'll allow flexibility of the system to do many things. Perhaps be a DVR or a Cable Box. Imagine signing up for Cable and you get an Xbox3 for your Cable box? Are you going to go out and buy a PS4 for gaming? Nope. Or even if you have a PS4, you're likely to try out the Xbox3 on a couple of games.

IMO Sony needs to get more creative. They have a huge hardware line up. How about take a page from IBM - lower manufacturing by making iSeries CPU the same. Need more power just pay the upgrade license. Why not ship all TVs with a PS4 built in. Need a game console? Put your credit card into your TV pay the slight bit extra and now you have a killer game system available.

Asymmetrical controllers rock! Who cares about the appearance? If you're looking at your controller and not the screen you are losing. The controller has to work. The 360 controller works very well. I see it as an evolved Dreamcast controller, which was great too. Not saying my PS3's controller is bad, it's very good. In some ways it's better than the PS2. But, I still prefer the 360's.
 
This is not a rumor: AMD lost $1.18 Billion. Yep, that's with a B. Wonder what that could do to either console if AMD goes belly up?


AMD tumbles further, ended 2012 with net loss of $1.18 billion

Hope they can recover. Obviously some people believe in AMD, they just poached some high end execs. But then, that might also just drive down into the abyss even quicker.
 
Sony's Kaz Hirari said that he wants Microsoft to go first with their 3rd Xbox announcement. "Why go first when your competitors can look at your specifications and come up with something better? - CEO Hirari

My 2 cents is if a company wants a Christmas 2013 launch in sufficient quantities they need to be in manufacturing soon. Which means a radical change is unlikely to happen. And if you're announcing in 2013 but want to be flexible and change things before 2014 you could do that. However, looking at the Nintendo announcement then a 1+ year wait it trashed their Wii sales and company. I think Sony and Microsoft should be smart enough to announce it a few months prior to release.

I'd also tell Kaz that the PS3 shipped 2nd, they had time to learn and be better than Microsoft, and the hardware is (by the top performance specs) better that wasn't as big a marketplace driver as it had been for the PS2 era. Today hardware is a commodity. The difference today is Applications and Services. Something Microsoft is known to be more capable of than Sony.
 
Glaucus said:
This is not a rumor: AMD lost $1.18 Billion. Yep, that's with a B. Wonder what that could do to either console if AMD goes belly up?

AMD tumbles further, ended 2012 with net loss of $1.18 billion
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In the PS3 - Sony had the ownership and rights to self manufacture. In the Xbox360 - Microsoft had the rights to choose their manufacture and owns this stuff. We have an era of fabless chip design. Sony and Microsoft will want to protect their hardware and retain the rights. Microsoft got burned a bit on the first Xbox so they definitely learned.

AMD's net worth is roughly $1.5Billion. Microsoft has an estimated $51Billion in cash reserves. Sure 1/2 of what Apple has but nothing to sneeze at. Sony's financial situation is much worse. If I were Sony I'd own those PS4 designs from AMD to ensure that if someone (Microsoft) did a take over they wouldn't lose their console.
 
My 2 cents is if a company wants a Christmas 2013 launch in sufficient quantities they need to be in manufacturing soon. Which means a radical change is unlikely to happen.
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Also, you need to give your developers some time to make a few launch titles... Again, you'd need to be at a hardware freeze real soon, if not already, to make that holiday 2013 push. Developers have let slip some general information regarding where a couple suspected XBox launch titles (Halo 5, Forza 5) stand, and that would line up with holidays 2013, as well.

"Why go first when your competitors can look at your specifications and come up with something better? - CEO Hirari
Click to expand...

I suspect that statement is just bluster to cover the fact that the PS4 will be late. This far in the game, I just can't see Sony hitting the holiday 2013 timeframe on either hardware or software, without making a huge mess of things.

I'd also tell Kaz that the PS3 shipped 2nd, they had time to learn and be better than Microsoft, and the hardware is (by the top performance specs) better that wasn't as big a marketplace driver as it had been for the PS2 era. Today hardware is a commodity.
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Very true. Heck, I think that wait and see strategy hurt the PS3 pretty badly. With it shipping so late, by the time people could buy it, Microsoft had already entrenched the x360. The PS3 got a few good in-house games, but the majority of the library consisted of ports from the x360. Meaning the advanced hardware they made people wait for just wasn't being well utilized, anyhow.

Right now, I'd say the Sony/Microsoft fight is Microsoft's to lose. If they don't let Ballmer screw it up too much, I see them maintaining the dominant position. Of course, one does wonder how much they both should be looking over their shoulder at things like the Steam console and the Android-based consoles like OUYA. Both of those are also leveraging pretty big followings of their own... It's not impossible that one of them could deliver a blindside like the original Wii did. (While the Wii U, itself, seems to be a flop, of sorts.)
 
Yes, OUYA seems interesting to me. At $99 a pop, and with all the already existing Android games already available, it could be a surprise hit if the marketing is done right. It's likely to do well with the Android nerds (yes, I'm even considering buying one just for development if nothing else) and that should help get it going. However, it just can't compete with any current gen console never mind next gen console in terms of graphics. However, I'm not sure how important that will be (so long as the games sell for far less than $60 like the PS3/xbox games currently do).

Steam may provide far tighter competition with the current gen consoles, but it may also further cannibalize the PC gaming industry, which I feel may in fact hurt Steam in the long run.
 
However, I'm not sure how important that will be (so long as the games sell for far less than $60 like the PS3/xbox games currently do).
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Yeah... It's a bit of a wild card. I agree that the graphics and horsepower disadvantage doesn't cut them out of the running. Much like the Wii, it'll be viewed as a 2nd class citizen in the battle... But if it's done right, the 2nd class citizen can show the big dogs up all the way to the bank. Personally, though, I don't know how much traction just being cheap will get ya. Like we were talking about earlier, OUYA needs a hook beyond just being cheap and geeky. Something that will resonate with a lot of people, like the Wii-remote did for Nintendo. I haven't seen it from OUYA, and, quite frankly, I have no idea what it would be... But that doesn't mean it CAN'T find one.

Steam may provide far tighter competition with the current gen consoles, but it may also further cannibalize the PC gaming industry, which I feel may in fact hurt Steam in the long run.
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Cannibalize the PC gaming industry, or unite it? A computer-based "reference platform" of sorts for Steam could go a long way toward bringing back some organization to the PC as a gaming platform. I mean, really, outside of a few Blizzard titles (World of Warcraft, Starcraft 2, etc) IS there even a PC gaming market left outside of Steam, anyhow?
 
Glaucus said:
Yes, OUYA seems interesting to me. At $99 a pop, and with all the already existing Android games already available, it could be a surprise hit if the marketing is done right.
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The OUYA feels a bit like a MAME Console. That's not overly exciting to me but I get why people might like it.

And the $60 game market is indeed a problem. It's clearly more limiting than the $2 game market. Xbox Live has lots of those inexpensive platform type games. In the new interface they're a bit tricker to find. Without much thought I think Microsoft could focus on those types of game as well as the $60 option. And of course with Xbox Live it could extend to phones, tablets, desktops, consoles just like Steam could. Xbox Live could be that 'reference platform' to bring organization to the PC gaming. It is the app store model. Also, we've seen Microsoft make inroads into connecting to iOS and Android. I think they know they are going to have to scale some of this stuff outside of their environment. They probably will keep the gravy within their environment to sell it. But, they'll want to reach outside to give people a flavor too.
 
So in other words, the next year or two could be a very interesting time for the console market. I'm game!
 
PS4 Info
AMD Liverpool custom APU with 8 Jaguar Cores. R10xx GPU. 4GB Unified Shared Memory.

Jaguar Core is a successor to the AMD Bobcat. Jaguar was announced last fall. Rumors are roughly 2.5x as fast as the same speed. Or twice as fast, slightly slower speed , but with a lower wattage usage. The Bobcat was a tablet CPU. This looks to be closer to what we might consider a low end notebook performance, today.

Though wouldn't it be interesting to see Microsoft partner with Sony and make a combined console? Run a modified Linux if you want the Sony Playstation Store. Run a modified WinNT if you want the Microsoft Live Store.

I think it's time to invest in some AMD..
 
Well, the good news is that jaguars are faster then bobcats, but I was hoping for a cheetah.
 
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