Your Moral Compass

[the_leander]

What part of live birth is confusing?

What part of viability was unclear, also, answer the question, I've asked it of you twice now.

Have you witnessed a live birth?

Twice.

Unless the doctor clears the baby's airways, the baby would likely die. The videos clearly stated babies are being born
alive and there is no concern for babies born "viable".

It makes no such claims at all. In fact the only mention of viability was in the uncited mention of a downs newborn being left.

Are we moving goal posts?

You might be, I've been consistent throughout.

I thought a "fetus" was not a baby until there is a live birth? Now a live birth is not a baby either, even after that baby is no longer attached to the mother?

Foetus is a medical term with a specific meaning and the woman in your video doesn't use the word.

*facepalm*

Ultra late term abortions are hard and unfortunately yes, there is the possibility that the foetus would survive birth, however, at 22 weeks it has little to no chance of survival due to the fact that it's lungs would not have developed enough for it to breath. Ideally an injection would be given invetro to kill the foetus prior to labour being induced. As the woman in the video states, when it's been left this long, there is no alternative if termination is what is being requested.

 

[the_leander]

This is a sick {bleep} country we live in with sick {bleep} people

To quote Fluffy:

Red, how much would you pay to raise a stranger's baby who needs constant medical care for life? When you are willing to put some numbers on that then maybe we can't start talking about who your money could save. If you aren't willing to contribute to raising these children then I don't see how you warrant much of a say in what other parents do.

When (and only when) you're willing to cough up Red, you get the right to post scorn on others who feel they can't.

 

[redrumloa]

I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but prior cultures have dealt with this sort of thing since the dawn of time. The Spartans were famous for killing babies with abnormalities that other neighboring Greek states would have accepted. The Inuit in Northern Canada were also known to leave babies out in the deadly cold for any reason including as a form of population control. Of course, many other North American cultures would also expect the son to kill the father at a certain age (resulting in some interesting Canadian court cases). Many of these "customs" were born out of necessity, so for these people it was all morally justified (in fact not doing so was considered the greater sin).

The point is that there is no absolute moral code. Attempting to discuss such issues with morality as your anchor only tells me you don't know what you're talking about.

Your excuse for slaughtering babies is because other cultures have done it in the past? Really? I feel my IQ lower just thinking about the concept.

 

[the_leander]

Your excuse for slaughtering babies is because other cultures have done it in the past? Really? I feel my IQ lower just thinking about the concept.

 

[redrumloa]

To quote Fluffy:
FluffyMcDeath said: ↑

Red, how much would you pay to raise a stranger's baby who needs constant medical care for life? When you are willing to put some numbers on that then maybe we can't start talking about who your money could save. If you aren't willing to contribute to raising these children then I don't see how you warrant much of a say in what other parents do.​

When (and only when) you're willing to cough up Red, you get the right to post scorn on others who feel they can't.

So this is what we have come to. A decade ago pro-lifers were shouted down when they exposed infanticide as liars. Now that the internet has exposed it as hard fact the pro-abortion crowd states murdering live-birth babies is OK because it is for the greater good.

Killing the unborn - check
Killing newborns - check
Killing babies up to 3 years of age - already being planned
Killing the disabled, elderly, homeless and unemployed - coming to a country near you

It is disgusting that Eugenics has become so trendy

 

[the_leander]

So this is what we have come to. A decade ago pro-lifers were shouted down when they exposed infanticide as liars. Now that the internet has exposed it as hard fact the pro-abortion crowd states murdering live-birth babies is OK because it is for the greater good.

Killing the unborn - check
Killing newborns - check
Killing babies up to 3 years of age - already being planned
Killing the disabled, elderly, homeless and unemployed - coming to a country near you

It is disgusting that Eugenics has become so trendy

Oh for the love of all that's holy will you listen to yourself? Go back and re-read what I wrote after you've calmed down.

Also, you failed, yet again, to answer the question posed to you.

 

[redrumloa]

Oh for the love of all that's holy will you listen to yourself? Go back and re-read what I wrote after you've calmed down.

Also, you failed, yet again, to answer the question posed to you.

Me? Reread what YOU have posted! You are trying to candy coat infanticide! And what question? Strawman.

 

[redrumloa]

This is what is becoming legal.

"The staff began screaming and pandemonium ensued. Sycloria watched in horror and shock as her baby writhed with her chest rising and falling as she breathed."
A clinic co-owner entered the room and used a pair of shears to cut the baby's umbilical cord, the suit said. She "then scooped up the baby and placed the live baby, placenta and afterbirth in a red plastic biohazard bag, which she sealed, and then threw bag and the baby in a trash can."

But it saved a few dollars

 

[the_leander]

Me? Reread what YOU have posted!

Yes. I also told you to do so after you'd calmed down. Apparently I should have used CAPS to make the point clearer given your current fugue state.

You are trying to candy coat infanticide!

As you are so prone to saying: Bzzzzt, wrong, but thanks for playing.

And what question? Strawman.

The question I posed to you not once but twice.

Here:

There are many medical disorders that can cause a foetus to develop abnormally, to the point where they are unlikely to survive birth or die shortly after. Anencephaly, for instance.

So, let's reverse that question: Would you rather a newborn die in agony over the course of several hours or days, knowing that there was nothing you could do to save it, or would you allow it some dignity and give it enough sedative that it died peacefully in it's sleep?

Bolded for your convenience.

Now answer the question.

 

[the_leander]

This is what is becoming legal.

Your ability to quote mine whilst ignoring pertinent facts is truly astounding to watch.

The very first words in that article:

A doctor's license was revoked

Hardly legal then, was it?

 

[Glaucus]

Your excuse for slaughtering babies is because other cultures have done it in the past? Really? I feel my IQ lower just thinking about the concept.

That's not really what I said (and btw, I noticed you used the word strawman above, but your own post here is a perfect example of what strawman arguments are). What I said is that you can't just assert that it's wrong just because.

For example, many people could assert that people should never be killed, but at the same time they may contradict that by saying there is justification for war or the death penalty or euthanasia or abortion or "stand your ground" laws. Self contradiction is a common human trait, but it's never easy dealing with it. The thing is there are subtle but important differences that one can use to differentiate between murder and war or capital punishment, etc, where as others don't see a difference at all. And as much as humans love clear black and white rules to follow, the world is in fact awash in gray. Ignoring that and talking about things in black and white simply isn't gonna get you very far.

 

[faethor]

I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but prior cultures have dealt with this sort of thing since the dawn of time. The Spartans were famous for killing babies with abnormalities that other neighboring Greek states would have accepted. The Inuit in Northern Canada were also known to leave babies out in the deadly cold for any reason including as a form of population control. Of course, many other North American cultures would also expect the son to kill the father at a certain age (resulting in some interesting Canadian court cases). Many of these "customs" were born out of necessity, so for these people it was all morally justified (in fact not doing so was considered the greater sin).

During one of my Bible Studies classes the question of applicable versus of the Bible on abortion was looked into. Turns out there's very little specific statements. According to the Pastor this reason was historic as Judiac culture of that time didn't consider the baby a person until 1 month after birth. Additonally there are laws against greiving before 2 weeks after birth. In that era various things were done to the Jewish Mother to abort if they didn't want the baby. Now I haven't since looked into his statements at the time or since. Later on my own learning of Greek culture mirrored that he knew what he was talking about. I wouldn't be surprised him to be fairly spot on the Judiac culture either.

 

[cecilia]

For example, many people could assert that people should never be killed, but at the same time they may contradict that by saying there is justification for war or the death penalty or euthanasia or abortion or "stand your ground" laws. Self contradiction is a common human trait, but it's never easy dealing with it. The thing is there are subtle but important differences that one can use to differentiate between murder and war or capital punishment, etc, where as others don't see a difference at all. And as much as humans love clear black and white rules to follow, the world is in fact awash in gray. Ignoring that and talking about things in black and white simply isn't gonna get you very far.

you'll notice in the other thread that red don't have a problem with a crazed gun-man killing Martin. I guess that's because Martin was a neegrow and only part of a person

 

[redrumloa]

you'll notice in the other thread that red don't have a problem with a crazed gun-man killing Martin. I guess that's because Martin was a neegrow and only part of a person

Why are you lefties always so racist?

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

Moral Compass?

 

[cecilia]

Why are you lefties always so racist?

it's obvious who the racist is around here and who is a "lefty"?

 

[Robert]

Moral Compass?

Haha - excellent.

 

[robert l. bentham]