Arizona Rep. Giffords shot, several wounded, aide killed

[redrumloa]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_congresswoman_shot

Not good, not good at all...

 

[faethor]

Someone perhaps took Sarah Palin's crosshairs too seriously?

 

[cecilia]

why is it that it's often so called 'right-leaning' people that think violence is a solution?

what assholes

 

[redrumloa]

why is it that it's often so called 'right-leaning' people that think violence is a solution?

what assholes

 

[Glaucus]

So here's a representative that takes the time to listen to the people. In return, one of the people shoots her in the head. Years from now we may be wondering why the representatives no longer want to meet with the people. A lose-lose situation. Very sad.

 

[cecilia]

why is it that it's often so called 'right-leaning' people that think violence is a solution?

what assholes

considering that Kaczynski was anti-technology I'd say he was more 'conservative'.

but I was thinking about the Oklahoma bombing and all those doctors that have been killed by right wing religious nut jobs.

 

[cecilia]

So here's a representative that takes the time to listen to the people. In return, one of the people shoots her in the head. Years from now we may be wondering why the representatives no longer want to meet with the people. A lose-lose situation. Very sad.

another congressperson just made that same comment.

but you just can't live your life worrying about nuts. they will always be out there

 

[redrumloa]

considering that Kaczynski was anti-technology I'd say he was more 'conservative'.

Wow, I don't know how you came to that conclusion! Kaczynski was the most extreme form of an environmentalist. You will find Green Peace is liberal leaning organization that engages in terrorist activities, though AFAIK not direct murders.

The most extreme on either side of the spectrum is capable of violence.

My point is events like this should not be politicized, otherwise as a country we will become far more divided and violence could escalate terribly. While most of you here may not like the political opinions of me, ltstanfo and Fade (for example), I doubt you expect us to try hunting you down. Likewise I could be having mental images you some of you having 3 heads at times, but I won't be putting on a bullet proof vest any time soon.

 

[cecilia]

I'm not a supporter of what Green Peace has become (and neither is the guy who started Green Peace, frankly) but they don't kill people as far as I am aware. they are just REALLY annoying.

annoying doesn't begin to come close to just killing people for the weird fun of it.

as to Kaczynski, well, you may call him an "environmentalist" but did he really have a respect for nature or was he just paranoid weird about technology? my feeling is that he had an unreasonable fear of technology. maybe i'm wrong. whatever.
personally, I think it's possible to respect nature and still love technology. you just have to be smart about it so that one doesn't destroy the other. Kaczynski didn't want to be smart. he just wanted to bully people.

I'm a civilized person and I do not solve my problems with people by killing them. what a stupid waste of my time that would be. I see problems as puzzles to be solved. there's no intellectual satisfaction if i don't solve the puzzle

 

[cecilia]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_congresswoman_shot

Giffords expressed similar concern, even before the shooting. In an interview after her office was vandalized, she referred to the animosity against her by conservatives, including Sarah Palin's decision to list Giffords' seat as one of the top "targets" in the midterm elections.

"For example, we're on Sarah Palin's targeted list, but the thing is, that the way that she has it depicted has the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district. When people do that, they have to realize that there are consequences to that action," Giffords said in an interview with MSNBC.

well, this doesn't surprise me, palin is a moron

During his campaign effort to unseat Giffords in November, Republican challenger Jesse Kelly held fundraisers where he urged supporters to help remove Giffords from office by joining him to shoot a fully loaded M-16 rifle. Kelly is a former Marine who served in Iraq and was pictured on his website in military gear holding his automatic weapon and promoting the event

really? did he think it was funny to shoot his opponent? what is wrong with these dickheads?
and saying that AZ is a place with lots of gun owners is just moronic. you don't PLAY with guns. if you don't respect the lethal nature of a gun, don't have it

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

My point is events like this should not be politicized, ...

No, they shouldn't but what you are really saying is, hey "liberals", don't do what I would do if the situation was reversed. That's not going to work. This thing was BORN politicized.

And it has a huge potential to just go on making trouble all the way to 2012. It would have blown over much faster except for two quite exceptional facts - a) the victim lived and b) the shooter lived. From posts he (or someone acting on his behalf) made just before the event it looks like the shooter was expecting (or expected) to die. Now there is no tidy ending. Now we can have an investigation and a trial, a big showy trial. The main stream media may not really want to cover it much but it may become unavoidable and the timing may be incredibly inconvenient to the right.

The right shouldn't really be too surprised that an event like this would occur. Their message appeals to the mentally unstable and there has been a constant drumbeat of "kill the liberals" coming from the GOP echo chamber through talk radio and Fox. This story is political through and through and plaintiff appeals to "let's not look behind the curtain" are not likely to wash.

 

[faethor]

So here's a representative that takes the time to listen to the people. In return, one of the people shoots her in the head. Years from now we may be wondering why the representatives no longer want to meet with the people. A lose-lose situation. Very sad.

Years from now? Wasn't there just someone elected in California who did no debates, no public appearances, but only bought media ads? I forget who that was I'll have to go and track it down.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

as to Kaczynski, well, you may call him an "environmentalist" but did he really have a respect for nature or was he just paranoid weird about technology? my feeling is that he had an unreasonable fear of technology. maybe i'm wrong. whatever.
personally, I think it's possible to respect nature and still love technology. you just have to be smart about it so that one doesn't destroy the other. Kaczynski didn't want to be smart. he just wanted to bully people.

You shouldn't have to wonder too much about Kaczynski. He wrote a manifesto, you know. You should read it.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

why is it that it's often so called 'right-leaning' people that think violence is a solution?

what assholes

"Almost everyone will agree that we live in a deeply troubled society. One of the most widespread manifestations of the craziness of our world is leftism"

- Kaczynski

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

Another look at the Palin tweet.

Commonsense Conservatives and lovers of American: "Don't Retreat, Instead - RELOAD!"

Sarah, Sarah, Sarah. Oh dear me.

 

[cecilia]

as to Kaczynski, well, you may call him an "environmentalist" but did he really have a respect for nature or was he just paranoid weird about technology? my feeling is that he had an unreasonable fear of technology. maybe i'm wrong. whatever.
personally, I think it's possible to respect nature and still love technology. you just have to be smart about it so that one doesn't destroy the other. Kaczynski didn't want to be smart. he just wanted to bully people.

You shouldn't have to wonder too much about Kaczynski. He wrote a manifesto, you know. You should read it.

yes, I know....but you don't seriously want me to waste my time reading that crap, do you? :mrgreen:

I'm too busy having a healthy happy life

 

[cecilia]

Another look at the Palin tweet.

Commonsense Conservatives and lovers of American: "Don't Retreat, Instead - RELOAD!"

Sarah, Sarah, Sarah. Oh dear me.

yeah, what a stupid cunt :roll:

anyway, EveryONE on that list should get security. now!

 

[Glaucus]

Years from now? Wasn't there just someone elected in California who did no debates, no public appearances, but only bought media ads? I forget who that was I'll have to go and track it down.

Good point. I wrote "years from now" because by then we may have forgotten this incident, but something tells me there will be more reminders to keep it nice and fresh.

 

[faethor]

Rep Gifford talks about the destruction of her office. She makes some very well stated and excellent points about the use of violent rhetoric. (Note the smaltzy male interviewer.)

I want to say I'm all for free speech. But, if you think your speech has no implications on others you personally have a mental problem. Especially if you are a political leader. Perhaps politicans will back off telling people to 'Don't Retreat, Instead RELOAD!' as Palin tweeted.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

yes, I know....but you don't seriously want me to waste my time reading that crap, do you? :mrgreen:

I expect you to have read it before you call it crap. Too many people have opinions on things they haven't read but simply choose to adopt other people's opinions. This is a form of censorship. If influential people denounce something as crap then other people will not read it. It may or may not be crap but most of the people who say it is don't say it from their own judgment.

Many good books and ideas have been hidden from public view by this denouncement.

I am not going to make a pronouncement on the unabomber manifesto though I have read more of it than many. I will only assert that those who haven't read it have no grounds to judge.