Crazy Canadian Christians

metalman said:
which only applies to members of your own tribe in an honor - shame society
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but what we see in reality is that we already live in an honor and shame society no matter which sphere of individual microcosm we actually exist in... our loyalties are always first local and then ever expanding like ripples on a pond... we honor our communities by shopping locally, we honor our states by preserving traditions, we honor our nation by dying for it's energy lust. we honor our gods by killing those who don't believe... we honor our families by taking sides... and yet metal man... we shame ourselves when we do all of this blindly...
 
metalman said:
"all men are ... endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights"
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Note the wording here - not God, not Jesus, not the Holy Ghost, not Buddha but a generic deity. Even deity might be a bit strong of a word as they don't present any works, other than creation, from the deity. Notice the moral code? Or I should more probably say the lack thereof. No 10 commandments, or other commandments or laws cited. The thing cited was our innate ability to figure this out for ourselves. What you've uncovered here is a Deistic concept as a Creator. A clear break from the Papal defined nationalities of Europe.

Also note that line is from the Declaration of Independence. It was prior to the forming of the United States. Instead all our laws use the US Constitution for their basis. TDoI at most can be considered a prequel providing the King te reason we were grownups and could handle this by ourselves. Certainly an important doc in the annuals of history. But not our foundation of law.

John Brown Abolitionist
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Thanks for the supporting documentation. As I said the Bible was used to support slavery for decades if not centuries. Your point out it was merely the 1800 years after the supposed resurrection of your god until the anti-slavery message was then clear? I'd have to say the problem here is an all knowing God is a really bad author.

Then they are no longer Christians
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Accordingly to your own Bible your Christian God reserves that right of judgment. I understand you don't think they are but by your own religion you don't get to make that call.

Faethor said:
Honor and shame from the society is not the only thing controlling people. Simple empathy, compassion, and understanding of the individual does that as well
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which only applies to members of your own tribe in an honor-shame society
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Empathy and compassion for fellow man only comes through honor and shame? I disagree and assert you're a fairly mixed up fellow.
 
metalman said:
Looks like those 9 have converted to atheism
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Perhaps Metalman is right, Christians raping women and children clearly reject the Christian guilt culture and therefore could only be atheists. In fact, any Christian who commits a sinful act, like say posting gay porn on a website, is clearly not Christian because Christians just don't do those sorts of things thanks to their guilt culture. Of course that means metalman can no longer consider himself a Christian as we all know about his extensive gay porn collection.

Metalman, welcome to the wonderful world of atheism. Who are you gonna murder first?
 
faethor said:
Accordingly to your own Bible your Christian God reserves that right of judgment. I understand you don't think they are but by your own religion you don't get to make that call.
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i live everyday with the knowledge that f there is a god... i too am unqualified... it's why i don't judge people anymore, well that and i'm not a child anymore, susceptible to the opinions of the differently sinning... we're all {bleep} ups... some times and in varying ways... it makes it real hard to get along when we don't realize that...
 
i was assured by my president that god was on our side during the first gulf war, and yet they used a myriad of lies to sell it to the general populace..... gods need to lie to cover their own tracks? babylon was destroyed by fire for building skyscrapers and enjoying sex... the church is full of skyscrapers (the first ones inspired by babylon) and forced sex with children... hmmm... the bible and that demon god can go suck it... the greatest illusion wasn't making people believe god doesn't exist, it's fooling people into thinking blind obedience to an invisible malevolent benefactor, with the same intent as a slaveholder; would work out in "the end", so eat it while you're here...all gods are a bitch before me... i can answer for my sins as soon as they can answer for theirs...:finger:
 
Glaucus said:
In fact, any Christian who commits a sinful act, like say posting gay porn on a website, is clearly not Christian because Christians just don't do those sorts of things thanks to their guilt culture. Of course that means metalman can no longer consider himself a Christian as we all know about his extensive gay porn collection.

Metalman, welcome to the wonderful world of atheism. Who are you gonna murder first?
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ted haggard (cough cough):D
 
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cecilia said:
I see such idiotic comments on all my G+ Communities. theists never seem to GET IT that not everyone in the world needs to slavishly follow a religion. So they insist on incorrectly describing atheists as if we live and act and think like they do.
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But he seems so earnest. I like to think that sometimes he's sitting at his typewriter with a bit of a smirk as he trolls us but he does it so well I think sometimes that he believes what he's saying.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
But he seems so earnest. I like to think that sometimes he's sitting at his typewriter with a bit of a smirk as he trolls us but he does it so well I think sometimes that he believes what he's saying.
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Me too. Maybe like this guy:
 
metalman said:
guilt arise from violations of one's internal values.
shame is a violation of cultural or social values
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Many decisions are more complex than guilt or shame. There's an honest - I don't do it because I don't like the idea. An easy example is sticking a fork into the socket. Do you really not do this because someone will laugh at you? Or do you not do it because it's not a very good idea? People do make decisions on a rational basis rather than an emotional basis.

Also, you seem quite stuck being influenced only by negative emotions. Others make choices for the positive over the neutral even though no guilt or shame would come from the neutral position. Man is clearly a social animal and improving the situation is a positive reward for many so they do it. Even if they did nothing and no guilt or shame would come to them.

@Robert: That's a good job providing an example of how, some, religious types rationalize but lack rationality. It's a good example for us more complex types that some people are only driven by fear.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
But he seems so earnest. I like to think that sometimes he's sitting at his typewriter with a bit of a smirk as he trolls us but he does it so well I think sometimes that he believes what he's saying.
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he believes every stupid thing he says
 
metalman said:
guilt arise from violations of one's internal values.
shame is a violation of cultural or social values
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That's right. Guilt arises from violating your OWN values, not God's, not the values of your church or anyone else but the ones that come from inside of you. If you are doing it just because God wants it done then you aren't feeling guilt, just shame, or fear.
There are groups of people in the world who have no gods or religion - and those groups could not exist for long if all their members did just whatever seemed simplistically the best short term game. Evolution has seen to it that we have emotions that motivate us to do things positive for the group and avoid thing negative.
 
@Faethor, the underlined part really drives it homes. The religious people acted the worst when they really believed God was on their side. Like as if it's God's will to cause so much human misery. Funny that.
 
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