iron lady dies... rust in peace war criminal

I don't fault anyone for celebrating. We could have (and some did say) that we shouldn't be having parties when Osama bin Laden/Saddam Hussein/Moamar Gaddafi were killed, but plenty of people did not disguise their glee. People were openly gloating when Chavez died even though they never "suffered" under Chavez or even knew anything about what he accomplished and only got their impressions through the wealthy elites that own the media. And even unfortunate and very much non-power-elite Rachel Corrie was run over by a bulldozer there were gleeful cries and ululation. Oh, but so many of the people cheering those deaths were right wingers. It's only unseemly when the left and the poor do it. That's when it becomes disrespectful.

Ding Dong the witch is dead. Sure, the wicked witch had family and flying monkeys that will miss her, but Ding Dong nonetheless. She is gone but the message is for her elite friends - we won't be sad to see you go, Ebenezer. Ding Dong on.
 
Maggie laid the groundwork for a broken Britain and for the worlds current criminal financial system.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
I don't fault anyone for celebrating. We could have (and some did say) that we shouldn't be having parties when Osama bin Laden/Saddam Hussein/Moamar Gaddafi were killed, but plenty of people did not disguise their glee. People were openly gloating when Chavez died even though they never "suffered" under Chavez or even knew anything about what he accomplished and only got their impressions through the wealthy elites that own the media. And even unfortunate and very much non-power-elite Rachel Corrie was run over by a bulldozer there were gleeful cries and ululation. Oh, but so many of the people cheering those deaths were right wingers. It's only unseemly when the left and the poor do it. That's when it becomes disrespectful.

Ding Dong the witch is dead. Sure, the wicked witch had family and flying monkeys that will miss her, but Ding Dong nonetheless. She is gone but the message is for her elite friends - we won't be sad to see you go, Ebenezer. Ding Dong on.
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Even if it was Hitler himself who had died. It feels also (or especially) wrong considering their victims, as if it is 'partyable' when their foe diminishes, as if they're connected for life.
 
cecilia said:
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Yikes! Frankie's made it to the other side of the pond.
 
When your enemies die, enjoy it - it's normal. People who didn't get screwed by someone won't get it and will think it beneath them but that's also normal. The real problem with the grave dancing is that it is the wrong target - the dead are done - but it does serve to remind the leadership that the people remember how they were wronged. Plain and simple, if you don't want people cheering when you go, don't be a dick.

Still, there were some good things that came out of the Thatcher years - "Spitting Image" for one.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
When your enemies die, enjoy it - it's normal.
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Having an enemy is a tragedy. You can only celebrate the loss of an enemy if their mindset changes.
People who didn't get screwed by someone won't get it and will think it beneath them but that's also normal. The real problem with the grave dancing is that it is the wrong target - the dead are done - but it does serve to remind the leadership that the people remember how they were wronged. Plain and simple, if you don't want people cheering when you go, don't be a dick.
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You're always a dick to someone, especially if you're a politician. They shouldn't make politics a personality cult.


But let me put up front that I'm not particularly fond of what Thatcher stood for, not at all.
-edit- AND I don't say either that people should get away with their political misdeeds but with this personality cult arresting a politician is being seen as undermining democracy. In life we let her go. That has been OUR responsibility.
 
“Even those who disagreed with her, respected her as a conviction politician”, it was said many times, as if everyone would participate in the mourning. But soon it was impossible to pretend there was a respectful consensus, not because of the odd party in the street, but from a widespread and considered contempt. In many areas it must have been confusing for Jehovah’s Witnesses, as every time they knocked on a door and asked, “Have you heard the good news”, they’d be told “Yes mate, I have, do you want to come in for a beer?”
Before long came the complaints, such as Tony Blair saying: “Even if you disagree with someone very strongly, at the moment of their passing you shouldshow some respect.” Presumably then, when Bin Ladenwas killed, Blair’s statement was: “Although I didn’t agree with Osama’s policies, he was a conviction terrorist, a colourful character whose short films were not only fun but educational as well. He will be sadly missed.”
The disrespect was inevitable, as millions were opposed to her not because they disagreed with her, but because she’d helped to ruin their lives. If someone robs your house, you don’t say: “I disagreed with the burglar’s policy, of tying me to a chair with gaffer tape and stripping the place bare, even taking the pickled onions, which I consider to be divisive. But I did admire his convictions.”
For example, a Chilean woman living in Britain was quoted in The Nation magazine, saying: “The Thatcher government directly supported Pinochet’s murderous regime, financially, via military support, even military training. Members of my family were tortured and murdered under Pinochet, who was one of Thatcher’s closest allies and friend. Those of us celebrating are the ones who suffered deeply.” Yes, but she was able to buy shares in British Gas so she was better off in other ways. In so many areas, the party that insists we show compassion for their departed heroine made a virtue of showing none when she was their leader. She didn’t just create unemployment, she gloried in it. Her supporters in the City revelled in their unearned wealth all the more because they could jeer at those with nothing.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...now-that-margaret-thatchers-dead-8568785.html

 
robert l. bentham said:
In so many areas, the party that insists we show compassion for their departed heroine made a virtue of showing none when she was their leader.
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And that's exactly it - they are a bunch of psychopaths, they don't know what respect and compassion are, but they know the words and they use them as a cudgel to beat the "little people" with.

-edit-
I liked this linked article.
When someone sends one of your family in to a depression that pushes them in to their grave it is personal. It doesn’t get more personal. This is why I despise her. I don’t know anyone who doesn’t.
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FluffyMcDeath said:
I don't fault anyone for celebrating. We could have (and some did say) that we shouldn't be having parties when Osama bin Laden/Saddam Hussein/Moamar Gaddafi were killed, but plenty of people did not disguise their glee. People were openly gloating when Chavez died even though they never "suffered" under Chavez or even knew anything about what he accomplished
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You're making the argument that past bad behavior justifies future bad behavior. I didn't jump in the streets when Osama or Saddam or Gaddafi died or whenever some serial killer is executed in US prison. Some times the killing is necessary or justified, but it's never a source of entertainment.
 
Glaucus said:
You're making the argument that past bad behavior justifies future bad behavior.
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I'm just saying there's human nature at work. If you weren't personally effected by someone's actions, if it didn't deeply wound you, then you can stand in that high moral tower that aloofness affords and preach on what is decent but if you were hurt it is personal and the passing of your nemesis is a relief just like it's a relief when a sumo wrestler stops sitting on you. It's a false relief, of course, she just happened to represent the system that's screwing you at a certain point in history, but humans are human ad they emotionally focus on people, not systems.

There is an asymmetry based on power when it comes to who gets respect for what. When the rich punch the poor in the face that's just their right under the natural order but if the poor take solace in the fact that the rich hurt their fist doing it, then that is unseemly.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
I'm just saying there's human nature at work. If you weren't personally effected by someone's actions, if it didn't deeply wound you, then you can stand in that high moral tower that aloofness affords and preach on what is decent but if you were hurt it is personal and the passing of your nemesis is a relief just like it's a relief when a sumo wrestler stops sitting on you. It's a false relief, of course, she just happened to represent the system that's screwing you at a certain point in history, but humans are human ad they emotionally focus on people, not systems.
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Here it sounds like what you're saying is that it's okay for those who suffered directly from someone to express jubilation at that someone's demise, but in your prior post that I first replied to you said:
I don't fault anyone for celebrating.
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I'm sure you agree that's different. And I agree that those who suffer directly from someone can be excused for their jubilation.
 
Glaucus said:
I'm sure you agree that's different. And I agree that those who suffer directly from someone can be excused for their jubilation.
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i would like you to consider the possibility that you haven't completely thought out what it is that "directly affects you" may be more than what you currently believe it to be...
 
http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/thatcher-funeral-scots-miners-celebrate-death-1-2899035

Mr Bunyan, who had worked at the former Monktonhall Colliery, said: “I bought this 30-year-old Macallan on the day I was made redundant and I said to myself that day “I’m keeping it for the day Thatcher dies.”
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Mr Clarke received cheers when he added that the only difference between Hitler and Mussolini and Mrs Thatcher was that the two dictators had “declared themselves as fascists.”
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“Thatcher never did this village any good. People in this village committed suicide because of what she did. Others got divorced or lost their houses. There was a lot of hardship during the strike with people taking a pick and shovel and going out to dig coal down the side of the River Esk to heat their homes and to give to pensioners.
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Among other things, Thatcher killed people to win her last election (which is the point at which this thread began).
But listen to what she did and see if it sounds familiar today. We're four decades into this plan and the excuse they love to use for why things just keep getting worse is that we haven't gone far enough.
 
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