Lap Bomber???

faethor said:
redrumloa said:
While true, (though what has the KKK done in the the last in the last 50 years?)
Click to expand...
The Imperial Wizard of White Knights of the KKK and Christian Identity follower David Wayne Hull was arrested for planning bombings within the US in 2003 and convicted in 2006.
Click to expand...

The KKK is the terrorist wing of the Democratic party, the "White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan" the most most violent branch.
 
faethor said:
metalman said:
New TSA security measures target 13 Muslim countries +Cuba

All passengers from countries on the State Department’s “State Sponsors of Terrorism” list – plus all passengers from other "countries of interest" such as Nigeria, Pakistan and Yemen — will receive “full body pat-down and physical inspection of property,”
Click to expand...
Which may be the best thing as Full body scanner cannot detect liquid explosives
Click to expand...

Nitro is a little tricky to make in an airplane restroom, high failure rate, but they'll keep trying, they didn't blow up the World Trade Center on the first attempt either. Good thing they were arrested and sentenced to jail time, so they wouldn't try that again. Then it only took another 15 years to jail their lawyer for conspiracy and providing material support to terrorists.

genitals and breasts blurred by software
Click to expand...

Luckily they'll never think to hide anything there

Asieri had a pound of high explosives, plus a detonator hid in his rectum.

Body cavity search next??
 
metalman said:
but they'll keep trying, they didn't blow up the World Trade Center on the first attempt either.
Click to expand...
If they'd parked the truck where the FBI mole told them to the tower would have come down. Damned terr'ists can't follow instructions.

Then it only took another 15 years to jail their lawyer for conspiracy and providing material support to terrorists.
Click to expand...

Not only does the state want to be able designate anyone a terrorist whenever they want, but they also want to make sure that there won't be any attorneys fool enough to try to defend them.
 
Fluffy, do you really believe that Islamic terrorists are purely fabricated by the US to mislead us all into some crusade against the Middle East?
 
Glaucus said:
Fluffy, do you really believe that Islamic terrorists are purely fabricated by the US to mislead us all into some crusade against the Middle East?
Click to expand...

It sure seems that way... I guess in the bin laden videos, he's really just giving a recipe for BBQ camel testicles.
 
There was a well known restaurant here in Winnipeg that had Prairie Oysters on the menu. Can't say I've had them myself. Or would want to.
 
Glaucus said:
Fluffy, do you really believe that Islamic terrorists are purely fabricated by the US to mislead us all into some crusade against the Middle East?
Click to expand...

Fluffy's always on the look out for another sinister conspiracy of the [select one or more (CIA, MI6, Mossad)]
From Fluffy's reading list:
the Obama administration conspired to sacrifice the lives of 300 travelers as a pretext to declaring war in the Middle East.

I believe this can be more easily explained by mere incompetence.
 
Obama has really motivated TSA in their search for an Episcopalian suicide bomber.

Joan Rivers was booted from a flight from Newark bound flight to Costa Rica because of the the two names on her passport:
Joan Rosenberg a.k.a. Joan Rivers.
(Rosenberg was her late husband's last name.)
Click to expand...
 
The State Department has announced today it is revoking the U.S. visa for "suspected" Nigerian underwear bomber Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab.

State Department received a tip Abdulmutallab tried to smuggle explosives onto a plane. The Obama Administration working to keep us safe, 12 days too late.
 
I think it's easy for people to look at this incident and conclude that either the government is incompetent or diabolically involved. However, to do either one must assume that preventing such attacks is a trivial task. I certainly don't believe it is. We need to remember that there have been many attempts that have been foiled by these very same supposedly incompetent or diabolical forces in the past. The terrorists on the other hand know that no matter how good the security is, sooner or later luck will be on their side and an attack will go through. They have endless attack vectors to choose from and an ocean of possible agents, it would be impossible for any security agency to provide perfect protection - especially without trouncing all over civil and legal rights. Is there room for improvement? Absolutely, and there's little reason to believe that improvements are not being made. Unfortunately it may never become perfect (or even close to perfect) but it will keep evolving and that's probably the best we can hope for.
 
Glaucus said:
I think it's easy for people to look at this incident and conclude that either the government is incompetent or diabolically involved. However, to do either one must assume that preventing such attacks is a trivial task.
Click to expand...

Carrying out an attack isn't a simple task either. Most people don't want to, and those that do don't have the means usually, and it does take means. The unabomber is rare example of a loner pulling off attacks but they were soft targets and low tech and a very different style of attack.

A large percentage of successful terrorism has substantial backing, often state backing. We know from Libya and other ME countries we have seen this, but the single biggest backer of terrorism in the world is the US. It has long practiced wicked destabilization campaigns in South America, Africa, Asia. (The US is only special in this regard because of the amount of resources it has been able to put into these things. The UK, France, Belgium and other imperial powers have done the same and continue to do the same in their areas of interest).

The last few airplane bombers have all been foiled and that's good for the security industry and the Department of Homeland Security. It keeps people scared, which keeps them controllable, which keeps them spending their taxes on scanners and police and SWAT teams and crowd control weaponry and surveillance and all other means of social control.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
Carrying out an attack isn't a simple task either. Most people don't want to, and those that do don't have the means usually, and it does take means. The unabomber is rare example of a loner pulling off attacks but they were soft targets and low tech and a very different style of attack.
Click to expand...
Yes, it does take means. More means then your typical person might have kicking around, and typical suicide bombers are usually poorer people, but not always as was the case with the latest attack. However, terrorism can be effective even on a shoe string budget because the real driving force is ideology not money. State sponsored terrorism is effective, but really you're just hiring a bunch of goons to {bleep} shit up. Islamic terrorists, although at times sponsored by states for various reasons, have their own agenda and will continue long after state sponsorship ends - just like Al-Qaeda has lingered on after the Soviets were ousted from Afghanistan. Instead these groups rely heavily on "charitable" donations and take advantage of the fact that the Middle East is bristling with weapons of all kinds.

A large percentage of successful terrorism has substantial backing, often state backing. We know from Libya and other ME countries we have seen this, but the single biggest backer of terrorism in the world is the US. It has long practiced wicked destabilization campaigns in South America, Africa, Asia. (The US is only special in this regard because of the amount of resources it has been able to put into these things. The UK, France, Belgium and other imperial powers have done the same and continue to do the same in their areas of interest).
Click to expand...
Many countries have backed terrorist groups in the past, but that doesn't mean all terrorism is state backed. Overall I don't think anyone expects al-Qaeda to destroy the US or even to defeat the US militarily in Iraq or Afghanistan. I also don't believe that's al-Qaeda's objective. All they need to do to stay relevant is to keep attacking on any level, even foiled attempts add to their credibility and keep the cash flow on the positive side.

The last few airplane bombers have all been foiled and that's good for the security industry and the Department of Homeland Security. It keeps people scared, which keeps them controllable, which keeps them spending their taxes on scanners and police and SWAT teams and crowd control weaponry and surveillance and all other means of social control.
Click to expand...
Like we needed an excuse to buy more airport security equipment. If that's the case, then why has our own government done so much to suppress whistle blowers from inside the system who claim our security is too lax? That alone would be enough for any government to make a snap decision to buy tons of security hardware - without making elaborate and highly risky plays that ultimately make them all look either incompetent or diabolical. And btw, the generated fear doesn't just allow the security companies to profit, but the terrorists as well. Since fear is their primary weapon, even a foiled attempt is a success for them. But like I said earlier, it keeps them relevant and keeps the "donations" coming in. Not sure how you could overlook that.
 
Like many things societies don't always weigh the risks with the solution. We're running around spending millions more on new scanners and labor to find all the terrorists. Yet their impact to deaths each year is relatively small. People often have fears out of alignment with probabilities.

Vaccines are another good example of this. Anti-Vaccers are afraid of the deaths caused by the medicine. Yet driving to the Dr. and home is, statistically a much higher probability of death.

Take for example drunk drivers. One week into 2010 and we have 200 deaths in the USA Bringing that out for the year that's 10K deaths. Way, way more than 9/11 let alone a single terrorist.

So why aren't we running around spending millions more for road security? It's because our fears are out of alignment with the reality of the probabilities of these 2 events. Net effect -- terrorists changed our society a small victory for the terrorist.
 
@ Mike

Unfortunately I ran out of time to fill this out (or fortunately for everyone else :) )
While would be a mistake to assume that all terrorist acts were carried out by our own governments it is far more naive to believe that all terrorist attacks are exactly what they seem to be, or what our governments say they are. Some people say that the idea that the idea that rulers would use terror against their own people and blame it on others is too "Machiavellian" and I find this criticism surprising. Machiavelli, was after all, simply cataloging methods and techniques for the acquisition and maintenance of power that had worked in the millenea previous. It's basically a manual and it still applies. The ruling classes are schooled in the theory and raised with the practice. When people say that the idea is too Machiavellian, all they really mean is that the idea upsets them and that is not a valid counterargument.

Of course the modern systems and theories are more layered. Additional techniques of rule and control have been layered on top and to a certain extent. Hitler's propagandists got paperclipped along with his rocket scientists. And Hitler wasn't the first to use propaganda, and propaganda is much improved today with better media dissemination and more immersive techniques.

And I'm out of time again before I even get to address your points - which I mostly won't disagree with.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
Hitler's propagandists got paperclipped along with his rocket scientists. And Hitler wasn't the first to use propaganda, and propaganda is much improved today with better media dissemination and more immersive techniques.
Click to expand...

Hitlers propagandists were not that good, they told the "Big Lie", which falls apart once the lie is exposed.

Communist Propaganda genius, Willi Münzenberg was the master of "many small lies" . Münzenberg's techniques of propaganda and front group disinformation are the templates used by all future Stalinist propagandists.

A turning point in German history, the Reichstag fire, was also a huge propaganda success. Not for Dr Goebbels and the "big lie" but for the obscure, Willi Munzenberg, who manufactured the evidence, after the trial started.
 
metalman said:
Hitlers propagandists were not that good, they told the "Big Lie", which falls apart once the lie is exposed.
Click to expand...

The beauty of the big lie is that it still works as the last decade of US/UK policy demonstrates - AND it still works AFTER it has been exposed. People are reluctant to admit that they were taken in and will construct elaborate justifications to cover over the obvious facts. This is also the phenomenon that causes people whose pastor turns out to be a crack smoking gay kid diddler to rally behind the reprobate believing that he is still basically a "good person".

Modern propaganda owes more to Edward Bernays than the Nazi propagandists. He was an American propagandist and also the nephew of Sigmund Freud. Bernays found that after the war the word propaganda had developed negative connotations. To get away from that he redubbed his work "public relations" and spawned a multi billion dollar a year industry.

The term, "Big Lie", by the way, was coined by Hitler (Große Lüge) in Mein Kampf. He used it to criticize the propaganda of the Communists and the Jews. Bernays, by the way, was Jewish but that is nothing more than an ironic detail.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top