MorphOS advocacy

@faethor
I have nothing against AROS and it is making strides, but MorphOS is still the better route at this time IMO. AROS now has integrated UAE, which is a big plus. But AROS is lacking in many areas. Ambient > Wanderer. AROS cannot run any PPC software (PowerUp, WarpUp etc) and does not have a strong web browser which is critical to me. Maybe one day AROS gets there, but not yet.

PPC Macs are not ancient and they are cheap plus plentiful. An internet friend of mine has 5x G4 mac and 2x G5 Mac for which he has spent less than $1,000 total, including at least 2x MorphOS keys. If one of his registered Macs completely die, he has plenty of spares which the key can transfer to.

That said, the MorphOS team has plans to switch to another architecture in the future. G5 is the last of the PPC support (except the odd sidestep to add Sam460 support).
 
@Red.
There's WinUAE for Linux. I suspect it wouldn't be hard to run it in the AROS Linux Interface. I think my AmigaForever CD even has Linux versions? Haven't looked as I run it in Windows. I get where people come from that emulation is not a true Amiga. But, in this day and age when hardware is now a commodity I think it's overly religious to make that stand myself.

PPC Macs are ancient by computer terms. They were launched in 2003 so they're nearly 10 years old. (3-4 generations old) Apple's PPC support really ended with the 2007 version of OSX, so 5 years ago. (1+generation old) The plus is a G5 Mac is newer than a A3K w/ PowerUp card and one's likely to be able to live longer on the G5 Mac before failure. But, it's all a bet, that's why your friend sucks up 7 Macs which means 6 other users out there can't be running MorphOS.

Good luck for MorphOS switching platforms. But, I wonder won't they be stuck with emulation such as x86 runs WinUAE. Won't there then be a WinMorphAE? Heck even Apple ended up there with Rosetta.
 
faethor said:
@Red.
There's WinUAE for Linux. I suspect it wouldn't be hard to run it in the AROS Linux Interface. I think my AmigaForever CD even has Linux versions? Haven't looked as I run it in Windows. I get where people come from that emulation is not a true Amiga. But, in this day and age when hardware is now a commodity I think it's overly religious to make that stand myself.
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I don't go for the religious angle at all myself. In 2012 that is mostly the domain of OS4 users and a few Amiga classic users. BTW you do not need WinUAE for the new Linux based AROS. Emulation is integrated and somewhat seemless AFAIK. AROS is improving and I am keeping an eye on it. JMHO that MorphOS is currently a better option.

PPC Macs are ancient by computer terms. They were launched in 2003 so they're nearly 10 years old. (3-4 generations old) Apple's PPC support really ended with the 2007 version of OSX, so 5 years ago. (1+generation old) The plus is a G5 Mac is newer than a A3K w/ PowerUp card and one's likely to be able to live longer on the G5 Mac before failure. But, it's all a bet, that's why your friend sucks up 7 Macs which means 6 other users out there can't be running MorphOS.
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I am not arguing that G5 PowerMac are cutting edge. I don't think you will find any MorphOS developers or users who will claim this. PPC is dead, dead, dead. Only some OS4 users will make the claim that PPC is viable. PPC mac support is a stopgap. My 2.7Ghz G5 waiting on MorphOS was released in 2005. Raw benchmarks would put it around some current netbooks, maybe a little behind. That is better than staying on Pegasos II which is discontinued and it is better than doing the Sam/amigaOne route which the price/performance ratio is laughably bad.

My friend with the 7 Macs has not put a dent in the 2nd hand Powermac market. There are millions upon millions of Powermacs being retired and sold 2nd hand. MorphOS users only range in the high hundreds with current potential customers in the low thousands. Used Powermacs will always be cheap and available.

One more thing. MorphOS is so efficient that it feels like lightning on a Powermac that would be sluggish under OSX. Try watching 720p Youtube videos under G4 OSX. I could do that on MorphOS.

Good luck for MorphOS switching platforms. But, I wonder won't they be stuck with emulation such as x86 runs WinUAE. Won't there then be a WinMorphAE? Heck even Apple ended up there with Rosetta.
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We shall see. It has been stated that MorphOS makes the switch, 68k/PPC compatability will likely be completely broken at least initially. Most MorphOS users seem willing to make that sacrifice to move forward. The reason we are still on PPC is mostly due to reality. There simply are not enough competant coders and resources to make the switch right away. Hopefully we get there in a few years. In the meantime I love the Amiga-like experience on a semi-modern system. You can poo poo it, but MorphOS on a Powermac does bot leave the user lacking many things except cutting edge gaming.
 
One more thing. What I am posting this message with right now is a 1.25Ghz FW800 PowerMac g4 that cost me $40. The MorphOS license cost me $100. I added a couple cards like SB Live and SATA. I have under $175 total invested. My 2x2.7Ghz G5 cost $175 shipped of which the shipping was probably near $75. The cost of entry is minimal and almost an afterthought.
 
Does MorphOS only run on G4 macs? I was looking at their hardware page and I didn't see any G5s.

As for modern gaming - yeah Mac's don't do that either so why expect MorphOS? How about 3D Printing? Any MorphOS controlling 3D printers?
 
faethor said:
Does MorphOS only run on G4 macs? I was looking at their hardware page and I didn't see any G5s.

As for modern gaming - yeah Mac's don't do that either so why expect MorphOS? How about 3D Printing? Any MorphOS controlling 3D printers?
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There was a bounty to add G5 support with a 3 month deadline. It seems things are progressing nicely. G5 support should be added by late Feb.

You have a 3D printer at home? I must be really behind the times if 3D printers. You mean 3D printer as in create 3D objects and not 3D images on a piece of paper?
 
I do want a 3D printer. There's some cool DIY stuff out there. Also, we have friends who we monthly get together to game. My desire is to make plastic pieces for our more rare and expensive games. We have some games that simply can't be found anymore. (well ebay at hellish high prices)

3D Printers are $1500-$2K range. Sounds expensive but I'm "old" I remember paying $2,000+ for the HP LaserJet II in the late 80s for DTP. So comparatively it's not that bad. Check it out. http://www.thingiverse.com/ is one of various good sites.
 
faethor said:
MorphOS on the G5 is progressing.
http://morphos.pl/423
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Yes it is!

lame_benchmark.png
 
Seems like the G5 will be the fastest system, which it should be. However, those benchmarks definitely indicate that the 2nd G5 is not used. (It seems that for a 41% Mhz CPU improvement + faster memory, faster bus, faster harddrive, faster videocard, yields a 50% faster execution. Scaling was fairly linear, which was good but clearly the 2nd CPU is not in use.) Not knowing much about MorphOS, but basing it on the Amiga roots, which I know, it seems there's a need to get better multithreading and multiple core recognition into the OS. Doesn't have to be done immediately, of course.

Due to Red I checked out some Macs in my area. Seems like the G5 1.8Ghz are the best deal - a few under $100. The Mac Mini G4 in the $125-$150 area. G5's in the $250-$400 area.

...On the bad side I got caught by the wife and was told I should spend the $250 on a new sink. Our bathroom faucet leaked all over the place for a couple of hours, so the cabinet definitely needs replacing. I should do that first. I assume a couple more months means PowerMacs will be even cheaper.
 
Yeah unfortunately only one core/processor is used and that won't likely change for some time. No Amiga-like OS has multiprocessor support. Hyperion has been blabbing about SMP for OS4 for years, but as usual it is nothing more than a carrot on a stick. MorphOS won't likely see SMP until the big upcoming architecture move, which is years away.

Don't forget G4 PowerMac. I have a 1Ghz Quicksilver I need to sell for ~$50 + shipping. G5 may be a better deal though if you don't pay shipping. If you decide to take the plunge, be cautious of supported models. I can give cliff notes if needed.
 
I checked out the MorphOS Supported Hardware . It's kind of buried in their site. My recommendation there would be post the link to the Mac Hardware on the home page. I noticed the PowerMac and PowerBook seem to have a subset of support. I figured I'd be lazy and focus on the Mac Mini G4, it appears that all are supported. There's a 1.5Ghz version for sale near me for $150 which wouldn't be bad.

The negative about the Mac Mini is I'd also like a faster Mac at home. A tower would let me keep 1 drive of MacOSX and one drive of MorphOS installed. At worst swap a cable. I'm tending towards a G5. Though as support isn't announced I might wait for the official announcement. That way I can be sure what I buy will work. For example, the 1.8Ghz are about 40-50% cheaper than the 2.0Ghz models but nothing yet indicates those may work.
 
If you go for a Mac Mini, only get a true 1.5Ghz model. It has 64MB VRAM where the other models only have 32MB VRAM. Trust me, with Ambient eye candy and 3D games, you will want the extra NVRAM.

I prefer a big box still myself. I will go from PowerMac G4 to PowerMac G5. I like the fastest system possible and the most upgradable / tweakable system possible.

Is there anything dirt cheap in your area? Maybe a PowerMac G4 Quicksilver or Digital Audio for $30 or something like that? Or maybe $5 at a local flea market or free from a friend's garage? That way you could use MorphOS Demo (30 minute limit until it slows down) for free until you decide what permanent route to go. Just keep in mind you need a Radeon gfx card, not a Geforce. It is about 50/50 what PowerMac came with, so best to ask. Of course if you have an old PC version Radeon lying around it is easy enough to flash with a Mac rom.
 
Thanks for the recommendation. I doubt I'll be 3d gaming I have a PS3 and 360 at home for that. If I wanted to do 3D computer gaming I'd likely use my Windows Desktop.

As for dirt cheap there are a couple G4 Towers. They seem to run $30-$70. But as you say then one has to watch out for which video card is installed. Often the Craigslist and garage sales don't have that info immediately available. Not too hard to get off the system. Though I'm getting lazy in my old age.

Do the silver door G4's work? Though with the prices I see one can get a G5 machine for about the same cost.

I do have a couple old Radeon's lying around. One I think I already I had already flashed with the Mac Rom. A friend wanted it for his G4 a few years ago. He decided instead to get a new Intel Mac and sell the G4. I probably could have bought it but I built a Hackintosh.
 
By silver door, you mean MDD(Metal Disc Drive)? If so yes, assuming a proper Radeon. FW800(Same MDD appearance, sometimes erroneously refereed to as MDD) also work. I have a FW800 1.25Ghz myself and it works like a champ.

You could always get a G4 cheap and upgrade it down the road with a new CPU board. MDD/FW800 aftermarket CPUs are rare and quite hard to find. Digital Audio/QuickSilver/Quicksilver 2002 aftermarket CPUs are fairly common up to 1.8Ghz. Going that route would probably cost you more in the long run, but less up front. The G5 of course spanks the performance of a G4, but MorphOS release is about a month away, give or take.
 
Yes the MDD. Sorry these are nearly a decade old. I don't remember all the different designations any more. Quicksilvers seem harder to find than MDD or the FW800 one's. A quick Craigslist find shows - dual 1.42Ghz G4 FW800 with OS only at $300 VS dual 1.8Ghz G5 w/ Adobe CS3 for $250? The G5's seem to be the 'no brainer' option here. Plus the G5 cheesegrader case is prettier.

Good to know that MorphOS for G5 is at least a month off. I supposed I should replace the bathroom cabinets first. Then they'll be no questions asked from the wife right?
 
faethor said:
PS3? Nah. We have both a 360 and a PS3. The 360 gets far more hours in a week than the PS3 does in a month. Though for high-end games it's time for a 720 / PS4 era to start.
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I'm considering instead to invest in a proper video card to add to my 4.3Ghz quad core and turn it into a real game machine (although my real objective is to get a CUDA based card to make video editing smoother). Photos and videos have been what I've been playing with lately so I can't see myself getting a PS4. It can probably emulate an Amiga rather nicely though.
 
faethor said:
Yes the MDD. Sorry these are nearly a decade old. I don't remember all the different designations any more. Quicksilvers seem harder to find than MDD or the FW800 one's. A quick Craigslist find shows - dual 1.42Ghz G4 FW800 with OS only at $300 VS dual 1.8Ghz G5 w/ Adobe CS3 for $250? The G5's seem to be the 'no brainer' option here. Plus the G5 cheesegrader case is prettier.
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I didn't know almost any of the terms before MorphOS started supporting them. Now that I have been using MorphOS on them for a while, I am getting to know different models. Craigslist prices can be stupid high and those prices above sound stupid high. You may want to scan eBay. Even with high shipping costs, you should be able to do much better than that. I got a dual 2.7Ghz G5 Powermac for $175 shipped.

One issue with G5 PowerMac is that >2.3Ghz have liquid cooling systems that are notorious for leaking. If you are up to it, tear it apart as soon as you get it, clean any leakage and rebuild the LCS. If you shy away from that sort of thing, get a model that is air cooled.

Also you may want to avoid PCI Express models and get a modfel with AGP. MorphOS may not support the PCI Express models.

Good to know that MorphOS for G5 is at least a month off. I supposed I should replace the bathroom cabinets first. Then they'll be no questions asked from the wife right?
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Ha! Good luck;)
 
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