New Gun Control... Necessary or Politically Expedient

metalman said:
According to FBI crime statistics:
in 2011, there were 323 murders committed using a rifle and 496 murders committed using hammers and clubs.

nearly twice as many people are killed using hands and fists each year than are killed by murderers who use rifles.


Homicide Data Table 8
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Yes, and in Scotland, you're several dozen times more likely to be stabbed than shot:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-16175439

Some other statistics from my country for 2011:
53% of killers were under the influence of alcohol.
26% under the influence of other drugs.
88% knew the victim.


But, as I pointed out earlier in the thread, you guys just seem to be a bit more into murdering each other than all the other countries represented:
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@cecilia

That's funny, though I'm not quite sure how that defense would work on an individual basis. But it made me wonder if the same could be said for gay rights, so I googled and discovered the Pink Pistols.
 
Hmmm... Maybe the gays are on to something. Maybe all we need is a law that states all guns must be pink and all accessories must be overly frou-frou.
 
Glaucus said:
Hmmm... Maybe the gays are on to something. Maybe all we need is a law that states all guns must be pink and all accessories must be overly frou-frou.
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I saw a stand up comedian do a routine about that very subject not too long ago.
 
Robert said:
I saw a stand up comedian do a routine about that very subject not too long ago.
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But it makes sense doesn't it? If you're angry as hell and want to cause max destruction, the last thing you're gonna wonna pick up is something that looks like what Mary Poppins would twirl about while singing a lullaby in midair!
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
@cecilia

That's funny, though I'm not quite sure how that defense would work on an individual basis. But it made me wonder if the same could be said for gay rights, so I googled and discovered the Pink Pistols.
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a friend of mine is a member of Pink Pistols - and considering how there are weirdos who attack gay people I say, good for him!


I do like Penn's idea of giving every women a pink gun, however. I would just hang it on my wall like a sculpture, but love the idea

if anyone bothered me I'd say..."PINK" and watch them run :lol:
 
Glaucus said:
Hmmm... Maybe the gays are on to something. Maybe all we need is a law that states all guns must be pink and all accessories must be overly frou-frou.
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Nice try Mike but pink guns sell quite well. I can't speak for any gays (but will inquire just to be thorough) but women around here buy them quite a bit. If you build it, they will come... ;-)
 
Glaucus said:
If I wanted to shoot up kids at a school, the armed cop wouldn't deter me at all. Why? Well, I have the element of surprise. The school cop has to be somewhere, most likely walking around to make a presence. Meaning, I can walk up behind him and shoot him in the head. But even if I didn't want to go that route, I can easily walk into a class room, barricade the door and shoot everyone in side. Since most spree killers are suicidal, the fact that a cop will eventually break in and shoot me dead wouldn't really be a concern so long as I can at least get a few kills of my own. And heck, even if he killed me before I shot anyone, that would still traumatize all the kids and parents and ultimately that would be part of my goal as well. I couldn't lose!

This whole "let's arm teachers" or "let's put cops in schools" is just a pathetic ploy by gun advocates who are willing to trade the lives of their kids for their right to masturbate with bullets.
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Really? This is what your discussion has reduced to? Masturbation with bullets? Wow. Redrumloa has a lovely parting gift for you... A box of bullets I think. ;-)

Regards,
ltstanfo
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
If you had to get insurance to own a gun, the insurance companies would pretty quickly incentive the sale of "safer" guns.
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Funny you should say that. Mine are insured although I admit not for the same reason you mention...

Regards,
ltstanfo
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
Yup. But they can make it unattractive to invade. They can make it very difficult to exercise control over the "captured" territory. All the equipment you mentioned is expensive, but a bunch of guys with small arms (and the ingenuity to improvise some explosives) can make it pretty costly to hold land once you set about trying to hold it.
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Point very well made sir! Bravo! :-)

Regards,
ltstanfo
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
@cecilia

That's funny, though I'm not quite sure how that defense would work on an individual basis.
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actually, I would (if I was asked or in charge) have armed guards at every Planned Parenthood center.
or any health clinic actually....and I've got good reason for concern as we know wackos have killed doctors/nurses and so on......

overkill?

sure it is

but as the asshole teabagger/evangelical wackadoodles only seem to respect firepower this should send a message

stay away from women's civil rights or have your ass blown off
:D
 
ltstanfo said:
I offer you and others here the excellent opinion episode done by Penn and Teller on their old show... Bullsh*it: Gun Control.
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Sam Harris takes a similar line:
http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-riddle-of-the-gun

A world without guns is one in which the most aggressive men can do more or less anything they want. It is a world in which a man with a knife can rape and murder a woman in the presence of a dozen witnesses, and none will find the courage to intervene.
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not surprisingly Harris brings in complex and sophisticated ethical issues that is rarely discussed in the media (circus)
 
cecilia said:
not surprisingly Harris brings in complex and sophisticated ethical issues that is rarely discussed in the media (circus)
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It's an interesting article but I have to say I disagree with most of it.

I'm not really a fan of Harris.
I don't think I share any of his beliefs, only the one he lacks. ;)
 
Robert said:
It's an interesting article but I have to say I disagree with most of it.

I'm not really a fan of Harris.

I don't think I share any of his beliefs, only the one he lacks. ;)
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I can't say I've read the article, but the bit you quoted isn't what I'd call convincing. It's a ridiculous premise, that in a world without a gun the strongest can do whatever he wants. That's always true, with or without the gun, the gun just changes who's the strongest or most powerful. American soldiers in Vietnam raped an entire village thanks to the power of the gun.

This however seems to be a common argument amongst gun advocates, that the firearm has some kind of crime nullifying properties. Put armed cops in schools and *poof* all our spree-killing problems go away. Of course you'd also need to add armed cops in malls and subways and transit buses and all large box stores and boat cruises and city parks and sporting events where ever else large groups of people gather and make inviting targets of themselves. And none of that would guarantee anyone's safety.

Anecdotes of successful self-defense cases are also rather pointless - as are most anecdotes. What does make sense is looking at statistics and comparing between different societies and see which one has an overall lower crime rate or murder rate. Gun advocates however tend to do all they can to never talk about such things, and there's a good reason for that.
 
Glaucus said:
I can't say I've read the article, but the bit you quoted isn't what I'd call convincing.
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Indeed and I'm perhaps doing him a slight disservice in quoting that part. There's a lot more interesting stuff in the rest of the article.
On the other hand, you could also argue that I'm painting him in an overly favourable light by quoting that part as there's also a lot of even sillier stuff in the rest of the article.


What does make sense is looking at statistics and comparing between different societies and see which one has an overall lower crime rate or murder rate. Gun advocates however tend to do all they can to never talk about such things, and there's a good reason for that.
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Whilst that's true, I also have to acknowledge that the statistics tell a rather complex and confusing story.
 
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