Obama will unilaterally attack Syria Thursday

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syria is another scam war to create a stepping stone to iran... here we go again... another rollercoaster of lies and misinformation... same shit different day, and all dissent is moot...
 
Glaucus said:
Why do you come up with this stupid bullshit when you should just tell us the reason you support the murderous Assad is because of his anti-Israel politics. It's no great secret.
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I support the murderous Assad the same way you supported the murderous Saddam. The US is killing "Assad's people" and they are going to kill more, just as they killed "Gaddaffi's people" and just as they killed "Saddam's people". You seem to have an obsession with defending Israel from all criticism even when no-one is criticizing them, even when no-one is bringing it up.

But since you have, what is your obsession with Israel? Why do you think Israel, above all other countries, is worth "saving", or rather, killing for? Do you, like our Prime Minister, put Israel above your own country as when he treasonously said that he will stand by Israel no matter the cost! What cost would be enough for you? A few hundred dollars per household to kill a few million Arabs rather than demand that Israel be a good international citizen and abide by international law? A few thousand per household, and the blood of our youth and a few terrorist reprisals? Is that enough cost? Because Harper said no matter WHAT the cost. How about you?
What makes the bunch of criminals running the Israel plantation any more worthy than the bunch of criminals that run the Syria plantation. In the last 60 years Syria hasn't attacked anyone and they haven't even tried to get the Golan Heights back. Israel has repeatedly attacked their neighbours - not defended against attack, just attacked their neighbours. Israel is wracked with internal racism and inequality and if the west wasn't propping them up with free money they would have collapsed under their own internal problems.

But, lets bomb Syria because the lives of hundreds of thousands of Goyim are not worth the comfort of the few hundred rulers of Israel. I object to the war we have been fighting against Syria for the same reason I objected to the war against Iraq which I thought was the same reason you objected to the war against Iraq - it's illegal, it's immoral, it kills the innocent, it destroys decades of infrastructure and society building and throws first world people and their aspirations back to the stone age. Just as in Libya, (and Iraq and the US), the cities are with the leadership - the rural areas are not. The fighting starts in the rural areas but to finally topple the regime you have to bomb the hell out of its supporters and those are the urban people - and that means, like in Libya and like in Iraq, we will bomb hospitals and power stations and telephone exchanges and water plants and sewage. That is how you destroy the social order - then you can impose your own "order" ... with bullets. It is evil. We created the civil war so that we could "solve" it. This is evil. We are using religious loonies to cut down intellectuals and secularists and independent thinkers. This is evil. It is also, unfortunately, normal.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
I support the murderous Assad the same way you supported the murderous Saddam. The US is killing "Assad's people" and they are going to kill more, just as they killed "Gaddaffi's people" and just as they killed "Saddam's people". You seem to have an obsession with defending Israel from all criticism even when no-one is criticizing them, even when no-one is bringing it up.

But since you have, what is your obsession with Israel? Why do you think Israel, above all other countries, is worth "saving", or rather, killing for? Do you, like our Prime Minister, put Israel above your own country as when he treasonously said that he will stand by Israel no matter the cost! What cost would be enough for you? A few hundred dollars per household to kill a few million Arabs rather than demand that Israel be a good international citizen and abide by international law? A few thousand per household, and the blood of our youth and a few terrorist reprisals? Is that enough cost? Because Harper said no matter WHAT the cost. How about you?
What makes the bunch of criminals running the Israel plantation any more worthy than the bunch of criminals that run the Syria plantation. In the last 60 years Syria hasn't attacked anyone and they haven't even tried to get the Golan Heights back. Israel has repeatedly attacked their neighbours - not defended against attack, just attacked their neighbours. Israel is wracked with internal racism and inequality and if the west wasn't propping them up with free money they would have collapsed under their own internal problems.

But, lets bomb Syria because the lives of hundreds of thousands of Goyim are not worth the comfort of the few hundred rulers of Israel. I object to the war we have been fighting against Syria for the same reason I objected to the war against Iraq which I thought was the same reason you objected to the war against Iraq - it's illegal, it's immoral, it kills the innocent, it destroys decades of infrastructure and society building and throws first world people and their aspirations back to the stone age. Just as in Libya, (and Iraq and the US), the cities are with the leadership - the rural areas are not. The fighting starts in the rural areas but to finally topple the regime you have to bomb the hell out of its supporters and those are the urban people - and that means, like in Libya and like in Iraq, we will bomb hospitals and power stations and telephone exchanges and water plants and sewage. That is how you destroy the social order - then you can impose your own "order" ... with bullets. It is evil. We created the civil war so that we could "solve" it. This is evil. We are using religious loonies to cut down intellectuals and secularists and independent thinkers. This is evil. It is also, unfortunately, normal.
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HELL YEAH!!
 
http://warincontext.org/2013/08/27/...trikes-against-syria-opposes-carrying-it-out/

http://www.salon.com/2013/08/27/hans_blix_u_s_has_poor_excuse_for_syria_incursion_now/singleton/

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/06/...-still.html?story_link=email_msg#.Uh62BxtwpOw

another bumrush to the murder of innocents... at least they will be slaughtered by american made products... somehow thats sposed to make it better... no one will clamor to invade america for her errant bullets and bombs... what a weak {bleep} people we have become....a veritable passel of pawns, puppets and pussies :(
 
I can't wait to see Obama attack. Will he dress like Rambo? How much ammo can he really carry?
 
Robert said:
It still tickles me how much of a "bomb the bastards" tub thumper you've become.
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Ya but I'm not. I'm still hoping they won't need to.

I don't really see it as a choice between war and no-war. The war is raging as we speak, people are being killed right now as you read this. And what are you doing about it? Nothing. I try to think what it would be like to be in that kind of situation, where I and my family are under constant attack by my own "government". I would hope that someone would come help me not die. So I see this as a choice between long-war vs short-war.
 
Glaucus said:
I'm still hoping they won't need to.

i wish they didn't want" too... they already don't "need" too

I don't really see it as a choice between war and no-war.


well thats what it is...

The war is raging as we speak, people are being killed right now as you read this. And what are you doing about it? Nothing.

most pretentious... and you are doing? oh yeah this...


I try to think what it would be like to be in that kind of situation, where I and my family are under constant attack by my own "government".


I would hope that someone would come help me not die.

if not you, who do you envision will be there?

So I see this as a choice between long-war vs short-war.

last time we made that "choice" ended so well...in the future still

09 / 11 / 2001
10/29/2001, Michael Leeden, American Enterprise Institute
"Just wage a total war against these tyrants; I think we will do very well and our children will sing great songs about us years from now."​
02/13/2002, Kenneth Adelman, a member of the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board
"Liberating Iraq would be a cakewalk."​
09/18/2002, Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense (before Congress)
"We do know that the Iraqi regime has chemical and biological weapons. His regime has amassed large, clandestinestockpiles of chemical weapons -- including VX, sarin, cyclosarin and mustard gas. ... His regime has amassed large, clandestine stockpiles of biological weapons—includinganthrax and botulism toxin, and possibly smallpox." (presentation to Congress)​
10/7/2002, George W. Bush, President
"The Iraqi regime . . . possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons. We know that the regime has produced thousands of tons of chemical agents, including mustard gas, sarin nerve gas, VX nerve gas."​
11/01/2002, George W. Bush, President
"... for the sake of protecting our friends and allies, the United States will lead a mighty coalition of freedom-loving nations and disarm Saddam Hussein. See, I can't imagine what was going through the mind of this enemy when they hit us. They probably thought the national religion was materialism, that we were so selfish and so self-absorbed that after9/11/2001 this mighty nation would take a couple of steps back and file a lawsuit.​
11/14/2002, Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense
"I'm glad you asked. It has nothing to do with oil, literally nothing to do with oil."​
11/15/2002, Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense
"Five days or five months, but it certainly isn't going to last longer."​
01/10/2003, Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense
"... something under $50 billion for the cost. How much of that would be the U.S. burden, and how much would be other countries, is an open question.”​
02/08/2003, George W. Bush, President
"We also know that Iraq is harboring a terrorist networkheaded by a senior al Qaeda terrorist planner. This network runs a poison and explosive training camp in northeast Iraq, and many of its leaders are known to be in Baghdad."​
03/16/2003, Dick Cheney, Vice President
"My belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators. . . . I think it will go relatively quickly, . . . [in] weeks rather than months."​
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http://zfacts.com/iraq-war-quotes
 
Glaucus said:
The war is raging as we speak, people are being killed right now as you read this. And what are you doing about it? Nothing.
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Well, personally I was writing some letters trying to get at least some people with influence to stop pumping weapons into the region. This would never have gone this far if friends of the US hadn't been pushing money and weapons and fighters into Syria using some of the nastiest religious ideologues as mercenaries that they could find. But there is a confluence of agendas and the good of the Syrian people isn't on the menu. We should have stopped pouring gasoline on this war two years ago but we wanted it to go on - and by "we" I mean the people that do as they wish with our money and resources no matter how we vote.
 
Glaucus said:
I try to think what it would be like to be in that kind of situation, where I and my family are under constant attack by my own "government".
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How about you try to imagine what it would be like to have your family under attack from religious extremists and terrorists with the nearest government troops tens of miles away and being held off by some other country's air power. Try and imagine what it's like to have heavily armed fundies streaming over the border killing off post office workers and police officers and priests of the "wrong" religion while government forces are already busy trying to re-secure a bunch of other town - no matter how much you hate Harper you still want your own secular forces to ride into town and drive out the terrorists. Try to imagine that instead of the fantasy bullshit you've been fed about how everybody in Syria really wants lawless thugs slaughtering whoever they feel like because a lot of Syrians are OK with Assad and just want peace and order back and believe they are more likely to get it from Assad's guys than from Al Qaeda.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
I object to the war we have been fighting against Syria for the same reason I objected to the war against Iraq which I thought was the same reason you objected to the war against Iraq - it's illegal, it's immoral, it kills the innocent, it destroys decades of infrastructure and society building and throws first world people and their aspirations back to the stone age.
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Exactly my sentiments.
 
Glaucus said:
people are being killed right now as you read this. And what are you doing about it? Nothing.
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Utterly irrelevant; People are being killed right now as you read this in countless other countries around the world. And what are you doing about it? Nothing.
 
Robert said:
Utterly irrelevant; People are being killed right now as you read this in countless other countries around the world. And what are you doing about it? Nothing.
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So effectively what you're saying is that the the world response to the Rwanda genocide is the model you'd like to go forward with. Nice. 500,000 people were killed in Rwanda and it was considered a disgrace to the UN. Over 100,000 people have died in Syria in the two years fighting and that number is likely to go up - an estimated 30,000 killed just this year alone.

And yes, there are other conflicts: On going military conflicts. The only conflicts that have a higher cumulative body count are Columbia and Afghanistan, and those go back to 1964 and 1978 respectively. If you look at just the body counts from 2012 alone the death rate in Syria is an order of magnitude greater than any other in the world right now. And by order of magnitude I mean at least one extra zero to the number of dead. To trivialize the Syrian conflict as just some other conflict is, to me at least, disingenuous.

You have repeatedly made comments about how I've changed my views, but to be honest, I don't see how someone who opposed the Iraq invasion on humanitarian grounds could also be completely indifferent to the slaughter in Syria. I think I'm consistent with my views on the Iraq invasion and puzzled with yours.
 
Glaucus said:
I don't see how someone who opposed the Iraq invasion on humanitarian grounds could also be completely indifferent to the slaughter in Syria. I think I'm consistent with my views on the Iraq invasion and puzzled with yours.
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trouble is, as fluffy so eloquently pointed out earlier, your best intentions are negated by the reality of what you seek. war doesn't create peace. ever. period. and it won't stop each side from slaughtering each other only, the mechanics of how they do it. and the sorrow and suffering will rain down upon the syrian people and you will see it as good how?
 
our drone strikes, while arguably killing bad guys is doing little to nothing to foment love for america... can't wait til we add syria and iran to the list... i think the christofascists are about to get their holy war... led by a "closet muslim ;)" so no one can accuse him of crusade... lol...
 
how to tell if you are on the wrong side of the syria issue....

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/08/neocons-push-obama-go-beyond-punitive-strike-syria

On Wednesday, the Foreign Policy Initiative—which was started by Bill Kristol, Dan Senor, Robert Kagan, and other hawkish-minded policy wonks—sent a letter to Obama, urging him to slam Assad in response to the use of chemical weapons in Syria: "At a minimum, the United States, along with willing allies and partners, should use standoff weapons and airpower to target the Syrian dictatorship’s military units that were involved in the recent large-scale use of chemical weapons."
But the letter—which was signed by Elliott Abrams, Fouad Ajami, Max Boot, Ellen Bork, Eliot Cohen, Douglas Feith, Joseph Lieberman, Clifford May, Joshua Muravchik, Danielle Pletka, Karl Rove, Randy Scheunemann, Kristol, Kagan, Senor, and dozens of others—demands that Obama go further. It calls on the president to provide "vetted moderate elements of Syria's armed opposition" with the military support necessary to strike regime units armed with chemical weapons. That is, the neocons and their allies have CW-ized their pre-existing demand for the United States to arm the rebels.

there it is glaucus... i love you man but those are the people ur in league with...
 
robert l. bentham said:
. i think the christofascists are about to get their holy war... led by a "closet muslim ;)" so no one can accuse him of crusade... lol...
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I think the christofacists (sauce for the goose...) like the idea of having an enemy they can understand and rely on to be in confrontation with - followers of another god. One of the things that bothers me is the roll back of the enlightenment as we tear down secular states which are no-doubt restrictive and rigid and replace them with theocracies that the christofacists can't help but be in more conflict with. To me there is a difference between the kind of regime that locks up, tortures and executes political opponents and a regime in which girls are shot by roving "god" appointed enforcers for trying to go to school or are stoned to death for choosing non-approved boyfriends, or where people are executed for realizing that god is imaginary and mentioning it. Kings and emperors die, gods don't.


Somehow the same people who told us we need to go to Afghanistan to free the people from the Taliban's ruthless religious rule are saying we need to support religious ruthless warlords in the same vein as the Taliban to free the Syrian people from their secular chains. But before we decided to save the Afghans from the Taliban we had decided to back Pakistan's use of the Taliban to save the Afghans from the secular soviets.

Meanwhile, in Egypt we let the military overthrow the elected government and we don't call it a coup. We watch the Egyptian military killing "their own people" and we are merely "concerned" but not concerned enough to stop sending the Egyptian military weapons or calling for sanctions and certainly not concerned enough to send weapons to the Egyptians that are being shot at. The moral arguments used to justify arming the Benghazi fighters are the same arguments used to justify arming the Syrian fighters but should be the same for justifying arming the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt and should have been good enough to justify sending arms to the crowds of Iraqis fired on by American forces for peacefully demonstrating against the occupation - but the arguments are not any kind of moral bedrock. The bedrock is political expedience dictated by the pragmatic concerns of expanding power and control over territory for trade routes and resources. The moral arguments are just so much sand thrown around as necessary to foul the eyes of those who might look too closely or to be hidden away when they aren't convenient.
 
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