Palin vs Biden the last VP debate

[metalman]

Well, except for Palin's answering of questions which weren't asked of her.

That was indeed painful and saying outright she wasn't going to answer the moderator's question. But then again all politicans dodge questions, they just don't admit they are dodging questions.

A political debate is an opportunity for candidates to directly pitch their agenda to the voters. A skilled politician will use this technique to shift a moderated political debate by bridging from the question asked to the talking point the politician wants to deliver to the voters. Scoring these debates on answering the moderators questions as would be done in an academic setting has no relevance in a political debate setting.

 

[metalman]

Indeed - how else can empire be maintained?

And many of the same people who see no problem with the US colonising half the planet are demanding Russia leave Georgia immediately. This is why it sounds so hypocritical, hollow and, quite frankly, silly.

Gee, you subscribe to the revisionist history that the US was the aggressor in WWII :?:

@Red
The world according to Chomsky e.g. when the imperialists Americans attacked by air and sea the peaceful vacationing Germans tourists on the French beaches of Normandy in 1944.

 

[the_leander]

Indeed - how else can empire be maintained?

And many of the same people who see no problem with the US colonising half the planet are demanding Russia leave Georgia immediately. This is why it sounds so hypocritical, hollow and, quite frankly, silly.

Gee, you subscribe to the revisionist history that the US was the aggressor in WWII :?:

@Red
The world according to Chomsky e.g. when the imperialists Americans attacked by air and sea the peaceful vacationing Germans tourists on the French beaches of Normandy in 1944.

Citation please.

Also, I'll ask again: Where did Robert even imply this?

 

[eleventhma]

I was wondering about that too

It seemed a little bit, um, out of the blue and off topic. Can you guys clarify what the hell you are talking about? I have read some Noam Chomsky, and I definitely don't remember anything like that.

 

[the_leander]

Re: I was wondering about that too

It seemed a little bit, um, out of the blue and off topic. Can you guys clarify what the hell you are talking about? I have read some Noam Chomsky, and I definitely don't remember anything like that.

Metalman is fond of grosly misrepresenting those who he doesn't agree with. Seems prolonged exposure to him has caused Red to start to do the same...

Expect it either the be ignored, a totally irrelevant link to be put up saying nothing of the sort, or, my personal fave (and sadly, the rarest) something to the effect of "good heavens, it would appear I've been rumbled!"

 

[faethor]

Re: Sad but fairly true, really

I agree with the_leander. Most Americans don't really think of it in terms of "Empire", but the fact of the matter is we have military bases in dozens of countries for the express purpose of being able to project our military power into other countries when we feel that it is in our national interest. I honestly thought the number of overseas bases would go down once the Cold War was over, but it really hasn't.

The USA is unquestionably a economic, cultural, political and military empire.

 

[Robert]

Indeed - how else can empire be maintained?

And many of the same people who see no problem with the US colonising half the planet are demanding Russia leave Georgia immediately. This is why it sounds so hypocritical, hollow and, quite frankly, silly.

Gee, you subscribe to the revisionist history that the US was the aggressor in WWII :?:

What on earth are you talking about?

 

[Robert]

Re: I was wondering about that too

It seemed a little bit, um, out of the blue and off topic. Can you guys clarify what the hell you are talking about? I have read some Noam Chomsky, and I definitely don't remember anything like that.

Metalman is fond of grosly misrepresenting those who he doesn't agree with. Seems prolonged exposure to him has caused Red to start to do the same...

I was just thinking the same thing.

 

[ScapeGoat]

Re: Sad but fairly true, really

I agree with the_leander. Most Americans don't really think of it in terms of "Empire", but the fact of the matter is we have military bases in dozens of countries for the express purpose of being able to project our military power into other countries when we feel that it is in our national interest. I honestly thought the number of overseas bases would go down once the Cold War was over, but it really hasn't. What's particularly frightening to me is just how much people fail to appreciate what an anomaly that is. No one else in the world does that even remotely on the scale that we do. We even have bases in Great Britain for God's sake. Britain has its own nuclear arsenal, so it isn't like they really need us there to protect them or anything. My own brother in law flies a KC-135 tanker out of the American base at Mildenhall. The purpose of that base, and the tankers that are based there, is to give the United States the ability to fly military aircraft virtually anywhere in Europe, the Mediterranean or Southwest Asia on short notice without having to land to refuel. Power projection.

RAF ( USAF) Bentwaters HAS closed and RAF (USAF) Alconbury is now admin only.
The Runway at Alconbury is probably longer than Fairford (Stratofortress Base) but is now used for Police "race & chase" training. The hangers have been rented out to local industry. ( I used to deliver food to the commissary at both bases.)

[edit]

Google earth of RAF Alconbury.. See the cars and trucks now parked on the runway. (I tried to get the file to open up google earth at location so peeps could scroll around but G.E works kinda differently in Ubuntu. ( I phailZ))

 

[cecilia]

My favorite part was when Palin talked about the teachers in her family. Obviously none of them teach English. Her grammar and vocabulary (or lack thereof) makes George Bush look like a world renowned English professor. :roll: I never thought I'd see a greater anti-intellectual then George Bush, but Palin has so far proven me wrong.

Interestingly that part of her debate is being lauded by some today as one of the reasons why she apparently "connected" so well last night... she is "mainstream" America. She comes across as an average person (unlike Joe... "I go to Lowes" Biden).

I don't care that she has an accent - Everyone has an accent, even if they don't hear it.

what I DO care about is that she's as dumb as wet cardboard.

why do I have to live in a country with dumb people making policy???

I'm sick to death of morons. if the majority of people are LIKE palin I really wish I could live on Mars

 

[cecilia]

I just wish I knew who her voice reminded me of. The principal's secretary is close, but not quite..

She reminds me of the sheriff in Fargo.

the accent is close, but the sheriff in Fargo is WAAAAAAY more intelligent

 

[metalman]

Re: I was wondering about that too

Indeed - how else can empire be maintained?

And many of the same people who see no problem with the US colonising half the planet are demanding Russia leave Georgia immediately. This is why it sounds so hypocritical, hollow and, quite frankly, silly.

Gee, you subscribe to the revisionist history that the US was the aggressor in WWII :?:

@Red
The world according to Chomsky e.g. when the imperialists Americans attacked by air and sea the peaceful vacationing Germans tourists on the French beaches of Normandy in 1944.

Can you guys clarify what the hell you are talking about? I have read some Noam Chomsky, and I definitely don't remember anything like that.

Criminal USA Imperialists invade France in 1944 enslaving Europe.

USA Imperialist War Crimes In France

Summary:
During the Great World War of US imperialism, the USA made an unprovoked aggression by illegally invading France in 1944. The US destroyed many French cities, killed thousands of French people and German worker tourists enjoying the beaches, toppled the legitimate French government and replaced it with their puppet leader "General Charles de Gaulle". Because of the USA enslavement of Europe under capitalism, the French people HATE Americans to this day. The Great World War of US imperialism was implemented by BushRoosevelt on the progressive peoples of France and their allies of patriotic community organizers and union activists in Germany, Italy and Japan.

"The Current Truth" discussed here

Progressive history interpreted through a socialist scientific dialectical rhetoric that cannot be undone by exposure to reality.

 

[eleventhma]

So where is Chomsky?

OK, some moron took a video about Oradour sur Glane, which was a village in France that was massacred by SS troops from the Das Reich division in World War Two, and slapped an anti-American label on it. One of the joys of the Internet is that anyone has the ability to do that. But what does Chomsky have to do with that? Did he have something to with any of those videos? Did he make them? The narrator in the first one sounds British.

The second one doesn't even make any sense. It uses a lot of original footage, but none of it supports any of their arguments. There are no references to original documents or source material. It reads like clumsy North Korean propaganda. Any historian worth his salt would rip it to shreds. And still no Chomsky.

So in essence, if I understand correctly, you have essentially found some of the most loony bin fringe leftist stuff out there on the web, and are attempting to link it to Noam Chomsky without any real evidence. Sorry, but I still don't see how this has anything to do with Chomsky, or how it invalidates anything that Robert or the_leander or myself have said. It's a straw man argument. It is just as pointless as me finding some horrendous racist Klan videos on the web, attributing them to some beloved right wing icon who had nothing to do with them, and then kinda sorta linking them thus to you by association.

 

[the_leander]

Heh, I see he went for option number two

Expect it either the be ignored, a totally irrelevant link to be put up saying nothing of the sort, or, my personal fave (and sadly, the rarest) something to the effect of "good heavens, it would appear I've been rumbled!"

I'm told I'm also quite good at poker too...

So in essence, if I understand correctly, you have essentially found some of the most loony bin fringe leftist stuff out there on the web, and are attempting to link it to Noam Chomsky without any real evidence. Sorry, but I still don't see how this has anything to do with Chomsky, or how it invalidates anything that Robert or the_leander or myself have said. It's a straw man argument. It is just as pointless as me finding some horrendous racist Klan videos on the web, attributing them to some beloved right wing icon who had nothing to do with them, and then kinda sorta linking them thus to you by association.

You understand perfectly 8)

As I'm not sure anyone else has said it, welcome sir (or madam as the case may be) to whyzzat

 

[metalman]

Re: So where is Chomsky?

The second one doesn't even make any sense. It uses a lot of original footage, but none of it supports any of their arguments. There are no references to original documents or source material. It reads like clumsy North Korean propaganda. Any historian worth his salt would rip it to shreds. And still no Chomsky.

:roflmao: Chomsky is a loony bin fringe leftist, with a large loony bin fringe leftist cult following.

In every pseudo-historical book Chomsky has ever written, his facts are distorted, the political context is ignored and the historical record is systematically propagandized. What Chomsky does is present a premise as “fact” and then weave a set of arguments that logically flow from the premise into an exercise in intellectual deception. Chomsky uses the “transformational rules” from developed in linguistics theory to rewrite history. “Transformational grammar” is the heart of Chomsky’s linguistics theory. What it entails is a “transformation” from the basic, original meaning of words to alternative expressions.

Chomsky and deception

 

[the_leander]

Re: So where is Chomsky?

The second one doesn't even make any sense. It uses a lot of original footage, but none of it supports any of their arguments. There are no references to original documents or source material. It reads like clumsy North Korean propaganda. Any historian worth his salt would rip it to shreds. And still no Chomsky.

:roflmao: Chomsky is a loony bin fringe leftist, with a large loony bin fringe leftist cult following.

I'll ask again, because, clearly you didn't read the part where you were asked for citation on your comment on Chomsky.

So, just to remind you of what you stated:

@Red
The world according to Chomsky e.g. when the imperialists Americans attacked by air and sea the peaceful vacationing Germans tourists on the French beaches of Normandy in 1944.

Citation please.

In every pseudo-historical book Chomsky has ever written, his facts are distorted, the political context is ignored and the historical record is systematically propagandized. What Chomsky does is present a premise as “fact” and then weave a set of arguments that logically flow from the premise into an exercise in intellectual deception. Chomsky uses the “transformational rules” from developed in linguistics theory to rewrite history. “Transformational grammar” is the heart of Chomsky’s linguistics theory. What it entails is a “transformation” from the basic, original meaning of words to alternative expressions.

Chomsky and deception

Nice, you picked one of the more hard right neocons to do your dirty work.

Also, stop using a $5 phrase that you have a limited grasp of. A simple "he changes the words to mean other things" would have sufficed. It's not big, it's not clever.

 

[the_leander]

Actually the above post isn't enough. So I'll add to it with this one.

Now, it has been a very long time since I read Chomsky, but the basic arguement I recall was that the US is very agressive toward those countries it doesn't like politically and is known to stomp on them. That the US uses it's culture and economic power to basically dominate other countries.

Well, the first is fairly easy. How many South American governments have been toppled by coups funded by the CIA? And that's just the ones we know of.

On the second, well, again easy on the cultural point of view, which ties nicely with the economic one on some levels; Go into any city in the world and you will find a Coke vending machine. On purely economic grounds, we have the world bank, who have consistantly raped African nations for decades, demanding that these countries do things such as sell off publically owned infrastructure (roads, rails, water production) and facilities (schools and hospitals) to private firms, who then more often then not then shut these things down or sell them on. All in the name of "making sure these nations do things in a capitalistic (as opposed to a more socialistic and sustainable) fashion". End result: These countries end up screwed.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

Re: So where is Chomsky?

:roflmao: Chomsky is a loony bin fringe leftist, with a large loony bin fringe leftist cult following.

I'll ask again, because, clearly you didn't read the part where you were asked for citation on your comment on Chomsky.

Aw come on Alan. You know he's never read Chomsky in his life, and even if he tried he wouldn't get it. That's why he has to resort to distortion and ridicule - just like the fascists he admires because they can't argue against Chomsky with the facts, they are forced to dismiss him with smears.

Chomsky is one of the most insightful, lucid and knowledgeable political and historical writers of the 20th and early 21st Centuries. Unfortunately he writes about the hidden history that we aren't supposed to know, especially in the US because it undermines the official national myth. He's as likely to read Chomsky as a Literalist Christian Fundy is to crack open a biology text. He'd be scared it would disagree with his fantasy.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

Interestingly I have a friend who is a teacher in Alaska, who happens to be a democrat. She planned on voting for Obama. That all changed when Palin was announced as VP, she will now vote for McCain. Palin is very, very popular in Alaska.

Is she really that popular.

 

[the_leander]

Re: So where is Chomsky?

:roflmao: Chomsky is a loony bin fringe leftist, with a large loony bin fringe leftist cult following.

I'll ask again, because, clearly you didn't read the part where you were asked for citation on your comment on Chomsky.

Aw come on Alan. You know he's never read Chomsky in his life, and even if he tried he wouldn't get it. That's why he has to resort to distortion and ridicule - just like the fascists he admires because they can't argue against Chomsky with the facts, they are forced to dismiss him with smears.

Bad ones at that.

Chomsky is one of the most insightful, lucid and knowledgeable political and historical writers of the 20th and early 21st Centuries. Unfortunately he writes about the hidden history that we aren't supposed to know, especially in the US because it undermines the official national myth. He's as likely to read Chomsky as a Literalist Christian Fundy is to crack open a biology text. He'd be scared it would disagree with his fantasy.

Thing is though is that it isn't even particularly well hidden, there are any number of accounts of CIA funded coups in south america, of world bank {bleep} over africa, all available at the touch of a button, just waiting to be viewed.

But as you say, you have to have the incentive to look first I guess.