Palin vs Biden the last VP debate

[faethor]

Re: I was wondering about that too

...
Progressive history interpreted through a socialist scientific dialectical rhetoric that cannot be undone by exposure to reality.

The problem with your arguement is that you created a strawman. Here we have people that conceive the US is an empire. You make a claim that they believe USA was expanding via imperialism against France in WWII. Nothing supports this. You make a claim that Choamsky backs US was imperialistic in WWII. But, again provide no support. Both these are at this time unsupported strawmen created by you in to discredit those who understand why the US is an empire. Sorry give us some evidence that anyone here believes the links you cited? Sorry but give us some actual citations from Chomsky that he believes this.

As a historian Chomsky has his take. Anyone can accept or reject his statements. But, also people don't need to accept 0% or 100% of what he says. I can't think of a single historian I agree with 100% of what they say. So even if you can provide support to your Chomsky claim believing in US WWII imperialism you'll still need to provide us some proof that those here agree with Chomsky on this point.

 

[Glaucus]

Re: So where is Chomsky?

Chomsky is one of the most insightful, lucid and knowledgeable political and historical writers of the 20th and early 21st Centuries. Unfortunately he writes about the hidden history that we aren't supposed to know, especially in the US because it undermines the official national myth.

the one thing that gets me about guys like metalman is that they are very supportive of using military means to solve political problems, but always quick to deny any hints of American imperialism. Honestly, I'd have more respect for metalman if he just admitted that the US has an empire based on military and economic brute force. Heck, the realist in me understands that the world will always be dominated by one super power or another and personally, I'd rather it be the US instead of Russia or China. I just wish the US was smarter about it.

- Mike

 

[Robert]

Re: I was wondering about that too

...
Progressive history interpreted through a socialist scientific dialectical rhetoric that cannot be undone by exposure to reality.

The problem with your arguement is that you created a strawman. Here we have people that conceive the US is an empire. You make a claim that they believe USA was expanding via imperialism against France in WWII. Nothing supports this. You make a claim that Choamsky backs US was imperialistic in WWII. But, again provide no support. Both these are at this time unsupported strawmen created by you in to discredit those who understand why the US is an empire. Sorry give us some evidence that anyone here believes the links you cited? Sorry but give us some actual citations from Chomsky that he believes this.

As a historian Chomsky has his take. Anyone can accept or reject his statements. But, also people don't need to accept 0% or 100% of what he says. I can't think of a single historian I agree with 100% of what they say. So even if you can provide support to your Chomsky claim believing in US WWII imperialism you'll still need to provide us some proof that those here agree with Chomsky on this point.

:roflmao:

I don't even have a hat on but I'll be sure to fetch one and scoff it greedily if that comes to pass.....

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

Re: So where is Chomsky?

Thing is though is that it isn't even particularly well hidden, there are any number of accounts of CIA funded coups in south america, of world bank {bleep} over africa, all available at the touch of a button, just waiting to be viewed.

But as you say, you have to have the incentive to look first I guess.

Pretty much. When I reread where I said "hidden", I thought it read a bit conspiracy-booga-booga, but that wasn't my intent. All I meant was that it wasn't talked about, like a dirty family secret - outsiders don't need to know so don't tell them. The people that run countries (pretty much without exception) have done some things from time to time that, if they were widely known, would make people wonder about what the crowd at the top were really up to. It would be bad for people to have those kind of doubts about their leaders (well, it would be good for the people in a democracy or a representative form of government, but it would be really really bad for the rulers).

Hence, there is a strong propensity among the ruling classes and those who depend upon them not to disseminate information that might make them look bad. To a certain extent Chomsky is viewed as a traitor by the elites and suppressing his work (which generally isn't very difficult anyway because he's an academic and people generally can't be bothered to read academic material) by smear or simply ignoring him is in their interest.

So, yes, the history is hidden in the simple sense that it is covered up with OJ Simpson trials and Hollywood affairs rather than being left out in the open where people can easily stumble upon it. Before you look for it, you need to know that it's there.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

Re: So where is Chomsky?

I just came across the perfect quote:

The crimes of the U.S. throughout the world have been systematic, constant, clinical, remorseless, and fully documented but nobody cares to talk about them.

and another

The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.

 

[Robert]

Re: So where is Chomsky?

I just came across the perfect quote:

The crimes of the U.S. throughout the world have been systematic, constant, clinical, remorseless, and fully documented but nobody cares to talk about them.

Is that a recent(ish) quote from Pinter? Link? I know he had a right pop at the Bush regime when he picked up his nobel prize a couple of years back.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

I'm sorry, but WTF..??? :shock:

Say it ain't so, Joe, there you go again pointing backwards again. You preferenced [sic] your whole comment with the Bush administration. Now doggone it, let's look ahead and tell Americans what we have to plan to do for them in the future. You mentioned education, and I'm glad you did. I know education you are passionate about with your wife being a teacher for 30 years, and god bless her. Her reward is in heaven, right? ... My brother, who I think is the best schoolteacher in the year, and here's a shout-out to all those third graders at Gladys Wood Elementary School, you get extra credit for watching the debate.

 

[Wayne]

I'm sorry, but WTF..??? :shock:

Say it ain't so, Joe, there you go again pointing backwards again. You preferenced [sic] your whole comment with the Bush administration. Now doggone it, let's look ahead and tell Americans what we have to plan to do for them in the future. You mentioned education, and I'm glad you did. I know education you are passionate about with your wife being a teacher for 30 years, and god bless her. Her reward is in heaven, right? ... My brother, who I think is the best schoolteacher in the year, and here's a shout-out to all those third graders at Gladys Wood Elementary School, you get extra credit for watching the debate.

Typical Palin I'm afraid. Palin and stupid babbling like are the number 2 reason I won't vote republican (for the first time in a LONG time). Number 1 reason? Here's a great example;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEtZlR3zp4c&NR=1

 

[cecilia]

 

[faethor]

@cecilia

Ideally that was one of the intents of the of the Electorial College. Of course when they have crap to choose from then well even that doesn't work. And certainly this spells trouble when the Supreme Court overrides the States Rights inherit in that system. Gore v Bush in 2000 was a strong recent example of how the right-wing court overrode States Rights.

 

[cecilia]

exactly