Ready for the next Ice Age? Winter is coming.

[redrumloa]

It's time to have a conversation about flatulent cows.

^^^ NOT a cow

Help Wanted:
Methane Nozzle inserter & maintenance technician

An estimated 20 to 30 million bison once dominated the North American landscape from the Appalachians to the Rockies, from the Gulf Coast to Alaska. Habitat loss and unregulated shooting reduced the population to just 1,091 by 1889. Today, approximately 500,000 bison live across North America.

http://www.defenders.org/bison/basic-facts

 

[JoBBo]

An estimated 20 to 30 million bison once dominated the North American landscape from the Appalachians to the Rockies, from the Gulf Coast to Alaska. Habitat loss and unregulated shooting reduced the population to just 1,091 by 1889. Today, approximately 500,000 bison live across North America.

http://www.defenders.org/bison/basic-facts

On January 1, 2016, there were 92 million cattle in the United States. (Source) Here is a scientific paper discussing methane emissions of bisons and cattle: Methane emissions from bison (Paywalled. Summary: 30 million bison emit roughly 45 Tg CO2e while 90+ million cattle emit about 140 Tg CO2e.)

See the difference?

 

[metalman]

On January 1, 2016, there were 92 million cattle in the United States. (Source) Here is a scientific paper discussing methane emissions of bisons and cattle: Methane emissions from bison (Paywalled. Summary: 30 million bison emit roughly 45 Tg CO2e while 90+ million cattle emit about 140 Tg CO2e.)

See the difference?

some major emitters of methane CH4 mw 16 :
Rice paddy's
wetlands
forest fires
plants
termites
ruminant livestock

highest concentration of methane in the upper atmosphere is at the equator

the OH with CH4 reaction is one of the most important sources of water vapor in the upper atmosphere.

 

[redrumloa]

On January 1, 2016, there were 92 million cattle in the United States. (Source) Here is a scientific paper discussing methane emissions of bisons and cattle: Methane emissions from bison (Paywalled. Summary: 30 million bison emit roughly 45 Tg CO2e while 90+ million cattle emit about 140 Tg CO2e.)

See the difference?

Plant food!!

There are 80,000,000 acres (32,000,000 ha) of land dedicated exclusively to corn cultivation in the United States. The United States is the world's leading producer of corn,[13] having produced 333,010,910 tonnes (327,751,510 long tons; 367,081,690 short tons) of the crop in the year 2009.[14]

95% of US corn farms are family-owned.[15] Highest yield of over 12 billion bushels have been recorded up to 2011 with 12.4 billion bushels reported in 2011 with yields of more than 140 bushels per acre.

 

[JoBBo]

Plant food!!

Sorry, but what is your argument? Are you saying everyone should eat corn now?

There are 80,000,000 acres (32,000,000 ha) of land dedicated exclusively to corn cultivation in the United States. The United States is the world's leading producer of corn,[13] having produced 333,010,910 tonnes (327,751,510 long tons; 367,081,690 short tons) of the crop in the year 2009.[14]

Most of the corn produced in the US is used to feed live stock and to produce fuel (ethanol), actually.

By the way, the reason why the US is the "leading producer of corn" is that it has been "leading the world in taking taxpayer money and subsidizing corn farming" since back in the 70s.

 

[JoBBo]

some major emitters of methane CH4 mw 16 :
Rice paddy's
wetlands
forest fires
plants
termites
ruminant livestock

There are many sources. The following web page has a nice chart:
http://whatsyourimpact.org/greenhouse-gases/methane-emissions

Clearly, fossil fuels and live stock farming are the big ones.

Obviously, replacing steak with rice is probably not going to be the optimal solution to address methane emissions. But since all rice contains arsenic, which is not safe at any dose, one should minimize consumption of rice anyway.

the OH with CH4 reaction is one of the most important sources of water vapor in the upper atmosphere.

Nobody argued we should remove all methane from the atmosphere. It serves an important purpose just like CO2 does. But like with many other things, it is all about having and maintaining the right balance, which I think is worth discussing.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

some major emitters of methane CH4 mw 16 :

Let's not forget the melting permafrost in the north and the destabilisation of methane clathrates also in the high north.

 

[redrumloa]

Sorry, but what is your argument? Are you saying everyone should eat corn now?

Whether you like it or not, you already are. I'm not making an argument, I'm stating facts. Almost everything you eat has corn in it. Whether we should or not is irrelevant and a discussion for another day. On that subject though, I highly recommend this documentary.

Most of the corn produced in the US is used to feed live stock and to produce fuel (ethanol), actually.

Not completely true. Unless you are a highly selective paleo vegetarian, almost everything in your kitchen has corn in it. Watch the above documentary.

By the way, the reason why the US is the "leading producer of corn" is that it has been "leading the world in taking taxpayer money and subsidizing corn farming" since back in the 70s.

Not my point, my point is the simple fact it is our largest food crop and shows just the staggering amount of agriculture in the US. Plants need CO2, more CO2 the better the crops grow. You are correct of course, but you missed my point.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

The United States is the world's leading producer of corn,[13] having produced 333,010,910 tonnes (327,751,510 long tons; 367,081,690 short tons) of the crop in the year 2009.[14]

95% of US corn farms are family-owned.[15] Highest yield of over 12 billion bushels have been recorded up to 2011 with 12.4 billion bushels reported in 2011 with yields of more than 140 bushels per acre.

Modern corn production is highly mechanised with huge industrial inputs for fertilizer and pesticides. Then you have transportation to markets and, in the rich countries of Europe and North America, 40% of food goes to waste (rotting and releasing methane). Since almost all of the carbon in that food eventually returns to the carbon cycle, even if the carbon temporarily fixed was greater than the carbon released to grow corn industrially, it will be a net increase in the end.

 

[JoBBo]

Sorry, but what is your argument? Are you saying everyone should eat corn now?

Whether you like it or not, you already are. I'm not making an argument, I'm stating facts. Almost everything you eat has corn in it. Whether we should or not is irrelevant and a discussion for another day. On that subject though, I highly recommend this documentary.

Most of the corn produced in the US is used to feed live stock and to produce fuel (ethanol), actually.

Not completely true. Unless you are a highly selective paleo vegetarian, almost everything in your kitchen has corn in it. Watch the above documentary.

I do not live in the United States. We have "real" sugar in Coca Cola / Pepsi over here

In fact, I live in a region where most corn found on fields is fruitless and is being grown purely for use in small "biogas" power plants (anaerobic digestion).

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

In fact, I live in a region where most corn found on fields is fruitless and is being grown purely for use in small "biogas" power plants (anaerobic digestion).

Germany? I hear that the competition for corn stover is driving the dairy industry to the brink. Or maybe not. Is the butter mountain still there?

 

[JoBBo]

Germany? I hear that the competition for corn stover is driving the dairy industry to the brink.

It´s complicated. After years of lobbying, small and big farmers finally managed to kill the European "milk quota" that was established to prevent excessive overproduction and to keep prices stable. What happened immediately after the evil anti-capitalist quota ran out last year? Well, the market has been flooded with milk and milk prices have dropped drastically. Who´d have thunk it?

Now, more small diary farmers are giving up every day...

Or maybe not. Is the butter mountain still there?

It´s back... But it is nowhere near big enough to really dampen the effects of this type of massive market failure. Basically, they are spending just enough money so they can claim they were trying to help the farmers but the money spent is pocket change compared to the bank bailouts.

 

[metalman]

Climate change is racist

 

[redrumloa]

Climate change is racist

Some BLM members are calling this protest a false flag operation since these protesters here are all white. Others are calling the protest itself racist since the protesters are "culturally appropriating" their movement (no whites allowed in BLM to them).

Either way, BLM is a shit stain on humanity.

 

[Robert]

CO2 levels mark 'new era' in the world's changing climate

 

[redrumloa]

The Arctic Was Supposed To Be Ice-Free In 2016 — That Didn’t Happen

Arctic sea ice hit its second-lowest extent on record, tying with 2007, according to the National Snow and Ice Data Center. There was still 1.6 million square miles of ice — that’s a lot more than zero ice coverage.

But that’s not what some “experts” predicted. In September 2012, The Guardian amplified the predictions of Cambridge University’s Peter Wadhams that the Arctic would be ice-free within four years.

“This collapse, I predicted would occur in 2015-16 at which time the summer Arctic (August to September) would become ice-free,” Wadham told the Guardian. “The final collapse towards that state is now happening and will probably be complete by those dates.”

This isn’t Wadham’s first prediction of an Arctic meltdown. “The imminent break-up of sea ice in summer months in 2007,” The Guardian reported. Sea ice did hit a record low that year — until it was broken in 2012.

“I have been predicting [the collapse of sea ice in summer months] for many years. The main cause is simply global warming: as the climate has warmed there has been less ice growth during the winter and more ice melt during the summer,” Wadham said in 2012.

 

[Robert]

World on track for 3C of warming under current global climate pledges, warns UN

 

[redrumloa]

World on track for 3C of warming under current global climate pledges, warns UN

The 15 year mark in this article is now the 17 year mark.

Now come climate scientists' implausible explanations for why the 'hiatus' has passed the 15-year mark.

If the pause lasted 15 years, they conceded, then it would be so significant that it would invalidate the climate-change models upon which policy was being built. A report from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) written in 2008 made this clear: "The simulations rule out (at the 95% level) zero trends for intervals of 15 yr or more."

Well, the pause has now lasted for 16, 19 or 26 years—depending on whether you choose the surface temperature record or one of two satellite records of the lower atmosphere. That's according to a new statistical calculation by Ross McKitrick, a professor of economics at the University of Guelph in Canada.

It has been roughly two decades since there was a trend in temperature significantly different from zero. The burst of warming that preceded the millennium lasted about 20 years and was preceded by 30 years of slight cooling after 1940.

 

[redrumloa]

 

[Robert]

Australian senator rails against climate conspiracy

In August, Roberts sparred with physicist Brian Cox on ABC’s Q&A program [linked on p2 of this thread], claiming that global temperature data had been manipulated by NASA to create the appearance of global warming—much to the consternation of Cox.

Shortly after, Roberts requested a climate science briefing from Australia’s Commonwealth Science and Industrial Research Organization (CSIRO). He was willing to listen, he said, to the proof that Earth’s climate is warming, and human activity is responsible. He got that briefing in late September. And he clearly didn’t listen.

On Sunday, Roberts held a press conference to promote a 42-page document he had produced in response to CSIRO. Flanking Roberts at the press conference were his notable co-authors. The first was Timothy Ball, a retired Canadian geography professor who co-authored a book denying the existence of the greenhouse effect (which exists) and who frequently writes posts on a prominent contrarian blog accusing climate scientists of fraud (and sometimes comparing them to Hitler).

Kindred spirits, perhaps?

And there's more hilarity to come:

Roberts states that sea level is not rising (and Pacific islands are actually rising higher above sea level!) and that there has been no global loss of glacial ice or sea ice. And then he starts in with a collection of fuzzy jpeg graphs that supposedly show CSIRO to be wrong about climate change.

For example, the oxygen isotope record from a single Antarctic ice core is lazily converted to temperature and treated as global average temperature. Some instrumental temperature data is slapped on top, and the claim is made that the world was at least 1 degree Celsius warmer about a thousand years ago. (It was not.) The links to the data sources in the caption aren’t even right.

Roberts even rejects the idea that human emissions of CO2 are changing the concentration in the atmosphere—a fact that can be verified by simple math as well as shifting isotopic signatures. Roberts falsely claims that the isotopic signature of fossil fuel CO2 is the same as volcanic gas, so we can’t tell the difference. Amazingly, he goes even further, adding the bizarre claim that atmospheric CO2 “is not and cannot be affected by human production.”

At the next step in the chain, Roberts’ document channels Timothy Ball and rejects the idea that increasing atmospheric CO2 can change atmospheric temperatures—flatly contradicting physics and denying the existence of Venus at the same time.