Russian ships and planes on their way to the Carribean
- Thread starter FluffyMcDeath
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ltstanfo said:
Well, put yourself in mad Vlad's shoes and I think you'll eventually see what I'm getting at without further elaboration.
If not, it might be easier to try to envisage a world where Russia has military bases all over the planet, whilst the US has very few, if any.
This fictional Russia also has a military alliance with other nations which is threatening to surround the US with potentially hostile armies.
This Russia has, in the last decade, invaded and is still occupying two countries much nearer to the US than Russia on 'questionable' grounds.
This Russia has trained the miltary of one of the USA's neighbours who then attack US peace-keepers and US citizens, within the neighbour's borders. The US responds and is criticised and castigated by Russia in the mostly absurdly hypocritical manner imaginable. Russia then sends ships to the neighbour's ports on a supposedly 'humanitarian' mission, etc, etc, etc..... How, assuming he wants the US to be seen as a major power, would the US president respond?
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ltstanfo said:
Well, put yourself in mad Vlad's shoes and I think you'll eventually see what I'm getting at without further elaboration.
If not, it might be easier to try to envisage a world where Russia has military bases all over the planet, whilst the US has very few, if any.
This fictional Russia also has a military alliance with other nations which is threatening to surround the US with potentially hostile armies.
This Russia has, in the last decade, invaded and is still occupying two countries much nearer to the US than Russia on 'questionable' grounds.
This Russia has trained the miltary of one of the USA's neighbours who then attack US peace-keepers and US citizens, within the neighbour's borders. The US responds and is criticised and castigated by Russia in the mostly absurdly hypocritical manner imaginable. Russia then sends ships to the neighbour's ports on a supposedly 'humanitarian' mission, etc, etc, etc..... How, assuming he wants the US to be seen as a major power, would the US president respond?
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ltstanfo said:
Well, put yourself in mad Vlad's shoes and I think you'll eventually see what I'm getting at without further elaboration.
If not, it might be easier to try to envisage a world where Russia has military bases all over the planet, whilst the US has very few, if any.
This fictional Russia also has a military alliance with other nations which is threatening to surround the US with potentially hostile armies.
This Russia has, in the last decade, invaded and is still occupying two countries much nearer to the US than Russia on 'questionable' grounds.
This Russia has trained the miltary of one of the USA's neighbours who then attack US peace-keepers and US citizens, within the neighbour's borders. The US responds and is criticised and castigated by Russia in the mostly absurdly hypocritical manner imaginable. Russia then sends ships to the neighbour's ports on a supposedly 'humanitarian' mission, etc, etc, etc..... How, assuming he wants the US to be seen as a major power, would the US president respond?
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ltstanfo said:
Well, put yourself in mad Vlad's shoes and I think you'll eventually see what I'm getting at without further elaboration.
If not, it might be easier to try to envisage a world where Russia has military bases all over the planet, whilst the US has very few, if any.
This fictional Russia also has a military alliance with other nations which is threatening to surround the US with potentially hostile armies.
This Russia has, in the last decade, invaded and is still occupying two countries much nearer to the US than Russia on 'questionable' grounds.
This Russia has trained the miltary of one of the USA's neighbours who then attack US peace-keepers and US citizens, within the neighbour's borders. The US responds and is criticised and castigated by Russia in the mostly absurdly hypocritical manner imaginable. Russia then sends ships to the neighbour's ports on a supposedly 'humanitarian' mission, etc, etc, etc..... How, assuming he wants the US to be seen as a major power, would the US president respond?
- Joined
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ltstanfo said:
Well, put yourself in mad Vlad's shoes and I think you'll eventually see what I'm getting at without further elaboration.
If not, it might be easier to try to envisage a world where Russia has military bases all over the planet, whilst the US has very few, if any.
This fictional Russia also has a military alliance with other nations which is threatening to surround the US with potentially hostile armies.
This Russia has, in the last decade, invaded and is still occupying two countries much nearer to the US than Russia on 'questionable' grounds.
This Russia has trained the miltary of one of the USA's neighbours who then attack US peace-keepers and US citizens, within the neighbour's borders. The US responds and is criticised and castigated by Russia in the mostly absurdly hypocritical manner imaginable. Russia then sends ships to the neighbour's ports on a supposedly 'humanitarian' mission, etc, etc, etc..... How, assuming he wants the US to be seen as a major power, would the US president respond?
- Joined
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ltstanfo said:
Well, put yourself in mad Vlad's shoes and I think you'll eventually see what I'm getting at without further elaboration.
If not, it might be easier to try to envisage a world where Russia has military bases all over the planet, whilst the US has very few, if any.
This fictional Russia also has a military alliance with other nations which is threatening to surround the US with potentially hostile armies.
This Russia has, in the last decade, invaded and is still occupying two countries much nearer to the US than Russia on 'questionable' grounds.
This Russia has trained the miltary of one of the USA's neighbours who then attack US peace-keepers and US citizens, within the neighbour's borders. The US responds and is criticised and castigated by Russia in the mostly absurdly hypocritical manner imaginable. Russia then sends ships to the neighbour's ports on a supposedly 'humanitarian' mission, etc, etc, etc..... How, assuming he wants the US to be seen as a major power, would the US president respond?
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Robert said:
I see where you are trying to go with this but I apparently do disagree.. with at least one part of your comments:
General comments first: Like you I view Putin as "Mad Vlad" (I rather like that moniker). However there has always been definite method to his madness. Putin is no dummy and every action he has taken since being in office has served a purpose (I believe). I specifically refer to his background within the KGB and his subsequent rise within that organization. Unlike his predecessors (Gorby and Yeltsin) who I viewed as somewhat rational / reasonable, I really do believe that Putin would not mind a return to the old (Soviet) ways with him being in charge, ala Brezhnev (something he is not far from now). To do that, he has to rattle the saber to try to reassert his country as a world super power.
1. The US sending ships in for "humanitarian" purposes was quite valid. The three ships in question:
USCG Dallas has a well established history of humanitarian aid and support. It's missions and armament make it no threat for any soviet warship. It is at best, a drug interdictor with mediocre offensive capability. Putin was really stretching on this one.
USS McFaul is a true warship (destroyer) that was (I postulate) sent as an escort for the USCG Dallas (because we probably didn't know how the Russians would react to the Dallas... as inoffensive as she is with respect to modern naval warfare. Dallas did offload 155,000 lbs of highly publicised cargo (see wiki article link above) but I grant that Putin can make some noise here.
USS Mount Whitney is at best a command and control vessel (ELINT) that is for all purposes as unarmed as the USCG Dallas. It has a well known secondary role of providing emergency relief (by design) for up to 3000 refugees.
There is no doubt that the Russians were monitoring the unloading of cargos at all times (by satellite at least) so if there had been any weapons offloaded as Putin tried to claim, they could have easily proved it. Putin just took advantage of the situation and made it into a saber rattling exercise (IMO). His upcomming event with Hugo Chavez will be similar only there will be no effort at anything other than military (and naturally political) display.
I do believe that given the opportunity, Putin would like a return to the Cold War. It only serves to shore up his (long term) power.
Regards,
Ltstanfo
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HMS Iron Duke is also in the area and has been since Sunday. She would have been around there looking for drug runners. I have heard rumors of a second British warship in the area as well but I've not seen or heard anything about that to substantiate it.
