Waterboarding isn't torture? Try it

  • Thread starter Thread starter News Feed
  • Start date Start date
what kind of low-life tried to justify torture?????

oh, yeah, that cheney asshole who lied about WMD, outed a CIA agent and had people killed for profit.
yes, the immoral, unethical kind of asshole
 
the_leander said:
FAIL

The Japanese were in fact water boarding, they may have called it the "water cure", but that doesn't change the fact that it was still in practice, the same thing.

Citation. --edit-- and another.

Again for the intellectually dishonest:

Game.

Set.

Match.
Click to expand...
DOUBLE FAIL!!

Before dancing in the end zone you might try reading your own sources

the Japanese were tried for "water treatment" also called "water cure", "water torture" and "waterboarding" but not for the practice known today as "waterboarding"

Colonel Nielsen returned to Shanghai, China, in January 1946 to testify in war crimes trials against his former captors, who had tortured him with waterboarding, then called the "water cure."
Click to expand...

There were 2 forms of water torture. In the first the victim was tied or held down on his back and a cloth placed over his nose and mouth. Water was then poured on the cloth. Interrogation proceeded and the victim was beated if he did not reply. As he opened his mouth to breathe or to answer questions, water went down his throat until he could not hold anymore. Sometimes he was then beaten over his distended stomach , sometimes a Jap. jumped on his stomach or sometimes pressed on it with his foot.
Click to expand...

Again for the intellectually dishonest:

"water treatment" also called "water cure" The victim was bound in a prone position; and a hose was forced into his mouth, then water was poured in until his lungs and stomach were filled with water until near bursting and he lost consciousness. if the the victim vomits the torture begins again. Once the stomach is filled, pressure is then applied, by jumping upon his abdomen to force the water out, and rupturing the internal organs. The practice was to revive the victim and successively repeat the process.
 
Metalman, what's the source of your quotes? From wikipedia we have this account:

Chase J. Nielsen, one of the U.S. airmen who flew in the Doolittle raid following the attack on Pearl Harbor, was subjected to waterboarding by his Japanese captors.[117] At their trial for war crimes following the war, he testified "Well, I was put on my back on the floor with my arms and legs stretched out, one guard holding each limb. The towel was wrapped around my face and put across my face and water poured on. They poured water on this towel until I was almost unconscious from strangulation, then they would let up until I'd get my breath, then they'd start over again... I felt more or less like I was drowning, just gasping between life and death.[38] The United States hanged Japanese soldiers for waterboarding American prisoners of war.[9]"
Click to expand...
Interesting, he does not mention anything about his stomach being filled with water or being kicked (probably because he would not have survived if it happened). If that happened to me, I'd probably start with that. This seems to suggest that Japanese soldiers were placed on trial for doing nothing more then just pouring water on a guys face. Sure they did nastier things too, but like the above suggests, simple waterboarding as we know it today seemed enough for a trial back then.
 
metalman said:
DOUBLE FAIL!!

Before dancing in the end zone you might try reading your own sources
Click to expand...

I did and unlike you, I didn't quote mine around the fact that Chase J. Nielsen's testimony was clearly discussing his being waterboarded - even describing what was done to him.

metalman said:
the Japanese were tried for "water treatment" also called "water cure", "water torture" and "waterboarding" but not for the practice known today as "waterboarding"
Click to expand...

Given that you've been provided first hand info from someone who actually suffered waterboarding as we know it today, as it was designed by the Spanish Inquisition, you are now just lying.

metalman said:
Again for the intellectually dishonest:
Click to expand...

I've been fully honest and provided first hand testimony. That you have deliberately ignored and quote mined around.

One of us is certainly being intellectually dishonest, and it's not me.

That they may or may not have been tried for water cures as well is irrelevant. Your claim that they were not tried for waterboarding has been proven utterly false.

@Glaucus

The quote comes from the second citation I provided, which he deliberately and wilfully quote mined.

--ninjar edits--
 
Glaucus said:
Metalman, what's the source of your quotes? From wikipedia we have this account:

Interesting, he does not mention anything about his stomach being filled with water or being kicked (probably because he would not have survived if it happened). If that happened to me, I'd probably start with that. This seems to suggest that Japanese soldiers were placed on trial for doing nothing more then just pouring water on a guys face. Sure they did nastier things too, but like the above suggests, simple waterboarding as we know it today seemed enough for a trial back then.
Click to expand...

In several books I have read on WWII in the pacific, filling the stomach with water was was referred to as "Japanese Water Torture." The "simulated drowning" goes back to the Spanish and the Inquisition, who brought the technique to the Philippines. It was in the Philippines the US Military became aware of "simulated drowning".

What is confusing is that "water torture" "water cure" and "water boarding" were all used interchangeably, and the Japanese used all variations of all 3 techniques, and sometimes just for sport.

as the terms are used now:
waterboarding --- simulated "slow-motion drowning", no injury to the body or death

water torture -- variation #1 -- totally filling the stomach with water, then slowly applying pressure to the abdomen, creating an intense pain of your internal organs, probable internal injuries, possible death

water torture -- variation #2 -- totally filling the stomach with water, then jumping on or kicking the abdomen, creating water hammer and rupture of internal organs and sometimes rupturing the intestines from the abdomen, a very slow painful death.

So yes, prisoners testified they were subjected to "waterboarding" by the Japanese, but they were the lucky ones, they lived, the war crimes trials were for torturing of those who didn't live.

From a description of the Rape of Nanking:
Another form of killing was water torture. First, the victim is filled with water through the mouth and sometimes the nose, usually to see them choke. The water would be force fed until the stomach bulged. Then the Japanese torturer would kick and/or jump on the stomach causing it to burst.
 
cecilia said:
someone on G+ said they can't wait for pepper spray to be categorized as a vegetable :lol:
Click to expand...
funny-captions-would-you-like-some-pepper-on-your-vegetables.png
 
@speel
I'm surprised I haven't seen a "Casually Spray Everything Cop" / "Leo Happy Strut" hybrid yet...
 
Right Wing talk show host Mancow Waterboarded . It's not too hard to guess what the results are. Agrees it's torture.

Metalman said:
waterboarding --- simulated "slow-motion drowning", no injury to the body or death
Click to expand...
I wanted to check as you didn't say this but the impression I'm getting is you don't consider it torture because it doesn't kill the victim. Is my impression correct?

And if it's not torture why should we not question criminal suspects, in say the Southern US, in this manner?
 
cecilia said:
what kind of low-life tried to justify torture?????

oh, yeah, that cheney asshole who lied about WMD, outed a CIA agent and had people killed for profit.
yes, the immoral, unethical kind of asshole
Click to expand...

Don't forget that asshole liar Clinton who's Iraq WMD data Bush and Cheney used. And it wasn't Cheney who outed the CIA agent who was no longer in the field.
 
Dammy said:
... outed the CIA agent who was no longer in the field.
Click to expand...

This is an attempt to diminish the damage. She was still a covert agent and her identity was still classified. Leaking her name damaged many operations that could be linked to her and wrapped up at least one CIA front Brewster Jennings and Associates. The full damage is probably classified but it wasn't a "no big deal" kind of thing. The psychos who were behind this always like to say that the situation was overblown but that's a typical defense.

On the other hand, the whole Brewster Jennings thing may have been considered by certain factions to be expendable anyway. They had been looking at Pakistan's nuclear weapons program and the IS had already been warned off of them by someone in the State Department, apparently so wrapping up the operation would have been a gift to Pakistan and the countries that Pakistan was exporting technology to.
 
why would ANYONE out even a so called 'retired' CIA agent????
do you think the other side can't go back and review info, details, contacts , events, etc and trace intel that could still reveal way too much secret info and people?

it's STILL unethical and frankly very naive to think so. only a criminal thinks it's ok to behave like this.
oh, right...cheney is a criminal :rolleyes:
 
cecilia said:
I'd love to help out here.....I'm sure i would be really good at it :D
Click to expand...

As a typical Progressive, I 'm sure you would be very good at it putting your whole heart into your work.
 
Glaucus said:
@Dammy, US soldiers train for what the enemy might do to them. Soldiers also train to deal with chemical, biological and nuclear weapons. They are of course, also trained to deal with being captured. Your argument is overall pretty silly.
Click to expand...

No, if it's illegal for the US to do to the enemy (which IMO, isn't), then it's clearly illegal to perform on your own citizens.

I think only some Americans think America is weak. America is not weak and the problems it currently faces are not going to weaken America all that severely. The US will remain as the super power for many years to come. Don't you worry about that.
Click to expand...

No it won't be probably within a decade. Russia and or China will be the new military super powers. Feel free to tell them how to conduct themselves and see what that gets you.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
Problem is that it gets Dammy's rocks off and he likes the guys that did it therefore it can't be illegal because, if it was, he'd have to admit to supporting illegal activities. Probably would result in some damage to his ego (which is often the result of letting the truth in - but it's not a bad thing).
Click to expand...

Shouldn't you be out clubbing a seal or some other great Canadian sport?
 
the_leander said:
According to your own citation, if we're going down the ultra literalist route, US Army personnel would not fit the above definitions either.
Click to expand...

Really? Which specific parts are you referring?

It also doesn't help your cause when the rest of the world called BS on it. The ICC called your governments definitions an utter nonsense when it all came out for good reason.
Click to expand...

Which of course, since the US Senate never ratified it, meaningless.

Also from your own quote, nice quote mining btw:

Most Taliban do all of the above... Specifically targeting army convoys and allowing civvies to pass unhindered.

--edit--

Also omitted I note:
Click to expand...

I will point out the error in your logic (don't like how this system quotes, but such is life) that it was never the Taliban that was waterboarded. Taliban prisoners were turned over to the Afghans to take care of. Only people waterboarded were senior AQ and AQ by the definition, does not have a country to defend.

I'll look at the IV version at a later date if you can quote the sections I need to look at.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top