1984 was not written as a "how to" manual

Facebook, Twitter, and the others don't owe anyone a platform. They can kick anyone off at any time for any reason, or no reason at all. And that is as it should be. There is no platform that should be under an obligation to carry anything they choose not to.

I don't fully agree here. It is illegal in the US to refuse customers based on race, gender or sexual orientation, but political affiliation is A-OK?

Also lets be honest here. These social media platforms are unprecedented in human history. They are the new public square. It seems you are suggesting that a private corporation (well, technically public since it is publicly traded) should be allowed to dictate the outcomes of elections?

Facebook has shut down 23 major populist Italian pages with 2.5 million followers just two weeks before the European elections.

Facebook alone has 2.32 billion members, close to 1/3 of the entire world population is on Facebook. That number must be about 90% of the west. Silencing groups based on politics will have a very, very real effect on the outcome of elections..

You touch on it slightly at the end of your post, but the fact these handful of companies have a complete monopoly on Social Media is not an accident. In this case we do need legislation, and maybe even a breakup of companies like Facebook similar to what happened to Ma Bell.
 
New Zealand: Citizens Receiving Home Visits From ‘Political Police’


The man is happy to talk to the cops, but they refuse to do so on camera and eventually leave.

In a separate clip, another man relates the story of how he was visited by armed police (again on a Sunday morning) because he makes YouTube videos criticizing mass migration.

The man’s wife and daughter, who were both upset by the experience, were also interviewed by police.



“I was asked if I was a Trump supporter, I was asked if I was a racist and have I got any ethnic minority friends,” said the man, who runs a YouTuber channel called Cross the Rubicon, adding that police also quizzed him on whether he owned guns.

Within a week, police returned to the house – 15 of them this time – closing off the entire street – to again interrogate him on his political views.

“They’re trying to force me to shut my mouth and to keep it shut,” the man said.

He also warns that governments are exploiting the mosque shooting to deplatform conservatives.
 
I don't fully agree here. It is illegal in the US to refuse customers based on race, gender or sexual orientation, but political affiliation is A-OK?

Well, that is a fairly limited law, and as far as I can tell, it doesn't apply to online services. Especially things like Facebook and Twitter where it's rather difficult to even nail down who is actually the customer, let alone what the user service is, if there even is a "service" at all. Keep in mind, Facebook makes their money off advertisers buying ads, and marketers buying data. In both a practical and a legal sense, those are the customers much more than the users are. The users are being entertained just enough to harvest information from them.

Also lets be honest here. These social media platforms are unprecedented in human history. They are the new public square. It seems you are suggesting that a private corporation (well, technically public since it is publicly traded) should be allowed to dictate the outcomes of elections?

The problem is these "platforms" are not public. They're private. It's not a public square any more than my house or warehouse is. Just because I invite a bunch of people to my party (and collect all their information as they enter, and monitor what they do), it doesn't mean I can't refuse entrance to anyone or kick them out whenever I damn well feel like it. Keep in mind, Facebook, Twitter, and Gmail all started with needing invitations, too... From the network security aspect as well, the very nature of a user account is considered an authorization to use a private system that can be revoked at any time for any reason, posted or not. You can't argue that I don't have the right to kick off a user from my company's network.

Facebook alone has 2.32 billion members, close to 1/3 of the entire world population is on Facebook. That number must be about 90% of the west. Silencing groups based on politics will have a very, very real effect on the outcome of elections..

I highly doubt it's 90% of the west. But even if it is more like 75% (when removing duplicates, fakes, dead accounts, accounts of the dead, etc), I totally agree it is still a massive problem. It very much does have a real sway on people and opinion. And worse, that sway over people is rather ancillary to their currently primary business (or so they say -- I suppose we really have no way of knowing). It's a dangerous and unprecedented situation, for sure.

You touch on it slightly at the end of your post, but the fact these handful of companies have a complete monopoly on Social Media is not an accident. In this case we do need legislation, and maybe even a breakup of companies like Facebook similar to what happened to Ma Bell.

Well, I think you're going to have a very difficult time finding the type of predatory harm (in a legal sense) as was found in the case of Ma Bell. These companies have basically "stayed in their lane" and haven't branched out as wildly as Bell / AT&T did. There currently is no law against holding a critical mass of people. Only against leveraging resources from that critical mass to dominate and eliminate competitors across multiple markets. Also, I'd argue that the only reason Facebook and the others could be considered a monopoly at all is because of the absence of Net Neutrality. If you define the the ISP as a Telecommunication Service provider (as they were under Title II) you minimize the ability for Facebook and the others to utilize their user count and cash fund as leverage against competitors, as the ISPs are then forced to carry all properly classified traffic the same as the rest of that class.

(edited for clarity)
 
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To me, the problem comes down to (our lack of) Net Neutrality.

Facebook, Twitter, and the others don't owe anyone a platform.
A bit like saying the telephone companies don't owe you a way to talk to people at a distance. Technically they can kick you off for non-payment, or possibly with a court order though I've never heard of one being exercised against a carrier, it's usually exercised against an individual as a condition of parole or bail.

The counter argument tot he telephone company is that they are (or were) monopoly carriers (thought they are less so now) but companies like facebook and twitter are monopolies (some say virtual monopolies but no-one can provide a portal to the same service the way telephone companies do because the service itself is a monopoly - only facebook can provide facebook, only twitter can provide twitter and there is no law requiring interoperability with other providers of the same sort of thing).
 
A bit like saying the telephone companies don't owe you a way to talk to people at a distance.

Not in the least bit, no. Facebook isn't a communication medium. The internet is the communication medium. Facebook is a destination site, and I'm arguing that it needs to be handled as such.

It sounds like you're making the opposite argument. That it is fine if the communication medium (ISP) is allowed to block me (or throttle me to oblivion) from contacting any destination I choose?

The counter argument tot he telephone company is that they are (or were) monopoly carriers (thought they are less so now) but companies like facebook and twitter are monopolies (some say virtual monopolies but no-one can provide a portal to the same service the way telephone companies do because the service itself is a monopoly - only facebook can provide facebook, only twitter can provide twitter and there is no law requiring interoperability with other providers of the same sort of thing).

Now, if you're going to say that Facebook might need to be broken up, well, it might. But, personally, I'd like to restore Net Neutrality first, and see if the problem is able to take care of itself. After all, AOL, Yahoo, MySpace, Friendster, Tumblr, etc, were monopolies for their platforms, too. Now they're footnotes or less.
 
The current Social Media platforms are indeed the new town square. Look at Twitter. You can post something on Twitter, and the whole world can see it. They don't even need a Twitter account to see it. i have never, and will never have a Twitter account. Despite this, I routinely see and read Tweets. I don't even have to go to Twitter's website, nor any app. I am not a member and I have not agreed to any terms of service.

What's worse, is this is all by design. The monopolies are by design. Have you followed what has happened to competitors such as Gab? Any time a competitor comes up, the machine attacks to shut them down. It's not just "private companies" controlling all public discourse, there are political parties and political individuals pulling the strings.
 
So often lately something I say ends up being a thing soon after.

 
BuzzFeed Is Attempting To Destroy A 14-Year-Old Girl Because She Hurt Their Feelings

Soph is a 14-year-old girl on YouTube who is foul-mouthed, crude, and often disturbingly correct. She’s like a walking talking episode of South Park. This combination of being this young and bearing wisdom usually reserved for people three times her age has made her extremely popular. She currently sits at 860k subscribers on YouTube.

What’s more, she’s unabashedly right-leaning, and that’s a problem for the left. Specifically the hard-leftist media mecca of BuzzFeed.

Publishing an article called YouTube’s Newest Far-Right, Foul-Mouthed, Red-Pilling Star Is A 14-Year-Old Girl, BuzzFeed’s Joseph Berstein launches after Soph with all the venom and rage saved for figures like Mike Pence.

The focus of Bernstein’s anger with Soph revolves around a video she posted titled “Be Not Afraid,” wherein she donned a burka and proceeded to highlight the absurdities of Islam, the mainstream media, social justice warriors and more with all the subtlety and grace of a freight train plowing through a warehouse filled with porcelain.

I would love to post the video for you, but during the course of writing this article YouTube has taken the video down for “violating YouTube’s policy on hate speech.”

Bernstein spent much of the article not only misunderstanding Gen Z humor but also attempting to paint Soph as an oncoming Hitler. Outside of trying to demolish this 14-year-old girl, however, he went after YouTube brass for allowing someone like her to exist on their platform in the first place.

It worked, and YouTube launched into action by striking Soph’s channel and taking away her ability to upload for a week. They’ve also now taken down her “Be Not Afraid” video as stated above.
 
Not in the least bit, no. Facebook isn't a communication medium. The internet is the communication medium.
I'm not sure that destinction even makes sense these days. You could argue that radio is the medium, phone lines are the medium and optical is the medium, but they all feed into the internet - but what is the "medium" of the internet? Packets? It's a heap of protocols - not a medium per se. It is inter-operating services. Is HTTP a medium? If you are part of a group of people and you build a club house then you can decide who you let in and who you don't, but if you lay out a plan for a city but millions of people come to build it and live in it, does the city planner have the right to kick people out? Perhaps at the outset, but once you've let everyone come in and put in work building stuff it would not be unreasonable to say that those millions of people have earned themselves some right to use what they helped build as they see fit.

Facebook is a destination site, and I'm arguing that it needs to be handled as such.
Facebook is a communications service. They have grown by allowing everybody to pile in. To that extent they have allowed themselves to be a public utility - they never restricted access or set out to woo a certain specific segment. That is to say that they have put themselves out there as a public service. There platform is a medium in effect.

If they are instead a publisher then they have an intrinsic right to police what they publish but they have fastidiously avoided calling themselves a publisher.
It sounds like you're making the opposite argument. That it is fine if the communication medium (ISP) is allowed to block me (or throttle me to oblivion) from contacting any destination I choose?
It is not right for an ISP to throttle your traffic. They do though. If your neighbour is watching a movie and you are checking your email, his packets will get through with priority over yours - but that's a technical consideration. However, a platform used by billions of people to stay in touch also shouldn't be throttling people to oblivion.

Now, if you're going to say that Facebook might need to be broken up, well, it might.
You wouldn't need to break facebook up if you could just force facebook to allow competitors running on their platform - which would be an interesting challenge.
 
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What's worse, is this is all by design. The monopolies are by design. Have you followed what has happened to competitors such as Gab? Any time a competitor comes up, the machine attacks to shut them down. It's not just "private companies" controlling all public discourse, there are political parties and political individuals pulling the strings.
The problem with "competing" services is that whenever f-book or some other giant kicks off people it finds undesirable they have to go to places like Gab, then gab can be attacked as a harbour for undesirables (and even payment processors and compute providers can be pressured to shut them down) - it's incredibly anti-competitive.
 
The problem with "competing" services is that whenever f-book or some other giant kicks off people it finds undesirable they have to go to places like Gab, then gab can be attacked as a harbour for undesirables (and even payment processors and compute providers can be pressured to shut them down) - it's incredibly anti-competitive.

It is. The vast majority kicked off Fakebook are not terrorists. They are just not extreme far left Globalism loving Democrats. It is clearly Tortious interference here in the US. It needs to be prosecuted each time it happens.
 
I'm not sure that destinction even makes sense these days. You could argue that radio is the medium, phone lines are the medium and optical is the medium, but they all feed into the internet - but what is the "medium" of the internet? Packets? It's a heap of protocols - not a medium per se. It is inter-operating services. Is HTTP a medium?

Well, now you're getting into the OSI model. Layer 1 is your physical stuff. Radios, Cables, etc. Then you move up through data frame structure in L2, your packets are L3, transports (TCP & UDP) are L4, etc... Strictly speaking, HTTP is an application (Layer 7). Facebook, Twitter, Whyzzat, and all of those would be a Layer 8 (as they are built on HTTP and other applications) should the OSI be expanded. The fact of the matter is, that your ISP should never ever be messing with stuff above Layer 7. The area between L3 and L7 is plenty of space to properly and fairly manage a network. That is the real idea behind Net Neutrality. My ISP shouldn't be allowed to accept money from Facebook to give Facebook 100gb/sec while limiting FriendSpace (the new Facebook competitor) to a "free" interface that caps out at 2400bps.

Facebook is a communications service. They have grown by allowing everybody to pile in. To that extent they have allowed themselves to be a public utility - they never restricted access or set out to woo a certain specific segment. That is to say that they have put themselves out there as a public service. There platform is a medium in effect.

I could not disagree more. They have always restricted access (forced logins, maintained user accounts, etc). They absolutely set out to woo a specific segment. Or don't you remember the days when you had to have a college email address to get a Facebook account? They have never claimed to be a public service. (They have never corrected anyone about that misconception either, but that is much like your point about also avoiding mentioning anything about possibly being a publisher.)

It is not right for an ISP to throttle your traffic. They do though. If your neighbour is watching a movie and you are checking your email, his packets will get through with priority over yours - but that's a technical consideration. However, a platform used by billions of people to stay in touch also shouldn't be throttling people to oblivion.

Again, completely different situation. Of course an ISP needs to run its network. And I have absolutely no problem with them shaping traffic at Level 7 and below. That is part of their job. The problem comes when they're making themselves gatekeepers of where you can go on HTTP, SIP (Voice over IP), RTSP (streaming) or whatever the hell you want to use. Not how they balance the separate needs of HTTP, RTSP, etc to deliver the service as efficiently as possible to us poor customers.

You wouldn't need to break facebook up if you could just force facebook to allow competitors running on their platform - which would be an interesting challenge.

Does that even make sense? When it comes down to it, IS there really a platform to Facebook? It's really just a giant database with a web front end. They already sell access to most parts of it.
 
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I could not disagree more. They have always restricted access (forced logins, maintained user accounts, etc).

What is Twitter's excuse then? Besides, with Ma Bell you also had to have an account to use their service. You don't see parallels, I certainly do.
 
What is Twitter's excuse then?

You still need an account to post something. Twitter could well be in danger of being classified as a publisher, even more than Facebook, though.

Besides, with Ma Bell you also had to have an account to use their service. You don't see parallels, I certainly do.

You never needed an account with Ma Bell. What kind of nonsense is that? You are free to pick up a public pay phone, drop in a few coins, and use it. No identification or login required.

If you wanted a private phone in your facility, you had to agree to pay the bill, but then you could still let anyone you wanted use it without ever needing to identify themselves to Ma Bell.

(You are forbidden to allow someone else to use your Facebook account, btw.)

Ma Bell's PSTN was regulated to allow you to call any number of equal class fairly. They could and did prioritize Operator calls, Emergency Calls, etc... But they were not allowed to say you can't call Bill's Towing Company, because Fred's Towing Company paid us extra for priority service. Same as you need your ISP to allow you equal access to any same-class destination.

To go to the phone analogy, Facebook would be the old "Party Line" number. Remember those? A chatting service you could use your phone to call into, built on top of the PSTN. Much like how Facebook is built on HTTP (well HTTPS, nowadays, but you get the picture.)

I mean, I'm sure I have a deeper understanding of this than most people, as I've literally designed and built network infrastructure for a couple decades, but this shouldn't be that hard of a concept to understand.
 
Facebook Suspends Candace Owens For Saying Liberal Policies Incentivize Fatherless Homes

The social media monopoly has suspended activist and commentator Candace Owens for the crime of claiming that liberal policies incentivize fatherless homes in the black community.

Owens was hit with a 7 day ban for posting, “Black America must wake up to the great liberal hoax. White supremacy is not a threat. Liberal supremacy is.”

She then included a screenshot of a tweet which pointed out that the poverty rate amongst married blacks is 7 per cent, compared to 22 per cent for blacks generally.

“My @facebook page has been suspended for 7 days for posting that white supremacy is not a threat to black America, as much as father absence and & liberal policies that incentivize it, are,” she tweeted. “I am censored for posting the poverty rates in fatherless homes.”



“Facebook has allowed every post that has falsely and horribly accused @realDonaldTrump of white supremacy to remain on its platform,” said Owens. “But when a black woman begins discussing the TRUTH—which is that liberal policies have systematically ruined black homes—they censor.”

 
Does that even make sense? When it comes down to it, IS there really a platform to Facebook? It's really just a giant database with a web front end. They already sell access to most parts of it.
That is the problem - it doesn't make sense. This is a new phenomenon. F-book claims something like 2 billion users. If all of the people you know are on facebook and that's how they share then how do you participate in that by using a competitor? You don't. That's the virtual monopoly part.

Back in the old days, if you wanted to talk to someone far away you could use a telephone, or maybe a radio - but using a radio would leave you talking to no-one for the most part but most houses at some time had a telephone. If you wanted to call someone you could find a telephone and make the call across various equipment and networks. From the user experience, it was just a way of talking to someone. Facebook is the same thing for a user, just a way of communicating - but you have to have a facebook account which is only good for using facebook. With the telephone you could get your service from whoever was the monopoly provider in your town and talk to people who got their service from other providers. No provider could arbitrarily kick someone off the service because of what they said or who they said it to.

Facebook functions exactly like a communications service like the old telephone network, is a monopoly on that service because that service does not (cannot?) inter-operate with competitor services that would let you communicate the same way with people on facebook service as if you yourself were on facebook service. Such a service could easily be designated a monopoly communication service for the purposes of law even if it is privately owned (just as a regional privately owned telephone service is private but is subject to government regulations pertaining to its function and character).

The nature of facebooks technology may be vastly different from the old telephone networks but it's usage and user experience is very similar. If they act as a carrier then they cannot ban people for what they say. They can only do this if they chose to be legally a publisher. Are they curating content or facilitating communication between people and entities? There are different regulations for these two types of roles, but facebook fastidiously refuses to pick one. One should then be decided for it.
 
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Joy Behar: Trump and All the Republicans ‘Should Be Thrown Into Jail’

Tuesday on ABC’s “The View,” co-host Joy Behar said given Republican lawmakers are silent as the Trump administration stonewalls Congress, they should all be “thrown in jail.”

During the discussion about former White House counsel Don McGahn not attending a House hearing, Behar said, “This is an unbelievable corrupt president, corrupt administration, and the Republican Party is right behind him, and they all should be thrown into jail as far as I’m concerned.”
 
Fakebook group admins are getting these warnings now.


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