nCoV2019 Pandimec!

[metalman]

There should be a place (like out in the country somewhere) where people can go and voluntarily catch COVID19 and come back to civilisation when they get three clear tests in a row. Some people will die. Some people will have health issues for life. Some will get the sickest they've ever been and will recover. And some will get lucky. There will be lots of people to take that chance. Mostly men, probably. I'll hold their beer.

Most likely to have severe reaction to COVID19 have these problems

1. Vitamin D deficient
2. Obese
3. Diabetic

If they are running around outdoors in the sun waiting to get COVID19, 95% will probably just have a mild case and get over it

I will not be intentionally getting it, lots of other long term problems caused by COVID19

 

[redrumloa]

There should be a place (like out in the country somewhere) where people can go and voluntarily catch COVID19 and come back to civilisation when they get three clear tests in a row. Some people will die. Some people will have health issues for life. Some will get the sickest they've ever been and will recover. And some will get lucky. There will be lots of people to take that chance. Mostly men, probably. I'll hold their beer.

But why were we all lied to when it was said the lock down was to "flatten the curve"? Now we are told it will be until we "find a cure"? Meaning never? We don't have a "cure" for the common cold or the flu. Nearly impossible we will see a "cure" in our lifetime and beyond.

Don't get me wrong, these reopen demonstrators aren't doing themselves any favors from the recent videos I've seen. There just has to be a common sense approach that addresses both concerns. Shutting down the economy and taking away all rights forever is not the solution.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

But why were we all lied to when it was said the lock down was to "flatten the curve"? Now we are told it will be until we "find a cure"? Meaning never? We don't have a "cure" for the common cold or the flu. Nearly impossible we will see a "cure" in our lifetime and beyond.

Don't get me wrong, these reopen demonstrators aren't doing themselves any favors from the recent videos I've seen. There just has to be a common sense approach that addresses both concerns. Shutting down the economy and taking away all rights forever is not the solution.

Why were we lied to that the flu was worse/killed more people? People are ignorant, politicians are about as ignorant as the people that vote for them. Flattening the curve was to keep the medical system from being overwhelmed. It more or less worked, but within days of flatten the curve it was already obvious and being pointed out that the degree of flattening meant also extending the curve for a long long time. Flattening the curve was just a herd immunity strategy spread out. We are still in the curve - it's just flat. From here on out we relax the lockdown until cases build up a bit, then lock down again keeping the infection bubbling along at a low rate until 70-80% of people have had it.
The only other ways out are:
1) a vaccine is found
2) a cure is found (so that patients can be treated without taking up hospital beds)
3) drive the virus to extinction

3 Was (and remains) possible but it requires a 3week lockdown of everyone (no cheating), transportation shutdown and extreme contact tracing. Could have been done but we've wasted so much time and people are already tired of treading water.

4) would be strict management. It would involve random surveilance, contact tracing and quarantine of people found to be infected. It could get 99% of people back to usual but the civil libertarians would have a fit. It would be like the South Korean model which has been very successful.

 

[redrumloa]

The only other ways out are:
1) a vaccine is found

Unlikely for months or years. Buying in will be hard.

2) a cure is found (so that patients can be treated without taking up hospital beds)

In the US and many western countries, hospital beds are at near historic lows as of this post.

3) drive the virus to extinction

Good luck! How did that work for the common flu, or the 1918 Spanish Flu?

3 Was (and remains) possible but it requires a 3week lockdown of everyone (no cheating), transportation shutdown and extreme contact tracing. Could have been done but we've wasted so much time and people are already tired of treading water.

We already went through that here in the US. Unless you mean zero "essential" employees.

4) would be strict management. It would involve random surveilance, contact tracing and quarantine of people found to be infected. It could get 99% of people back to usual but the civil libertarians would have a fit. It would be like the South Korean model which has been very successful.

Worst idea yet. "Contract Tracing" and the like is the most frightening prospect I have heard. You remember me from the DMZ days on amiga.org. I was straight up against the Bush Jr POS Patriot Act. I clearly stated it was anti-Constitution powers that would never be given up. It was supposed to be temporary, but we see how that turned out. The power grab here is far, far worse.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

We already went through that here in the US. Unless you mean zero "essential" employees.

Almost nobody in the west did that. China did it to a greater extent in Wuhan. And, yes, it would be everyone locked down for three weeks. You get two weeks to prepare, then everyone locks down. We could have gone closer to that and knocked it down more but you'd have to deal with the cheaters strictly. Instead we got a bunch of pussy footing half measures. Not too many politicians had the balls for that.

Worst idea yet. "Contract Tracing" and the like is the most frightening prospect I have heard. You remember me from the DMZ days on amiga.org. I was straight up against the Bush Jr POS Patriot Act. I clearly stated it was anti-Constitution powers that would never be given up. It was supposed to be temporary, but we see how that turned out. The power grab here is far, far worse.

It's actually the best idea but you demonstrate why America can't manage it. Instead, you'll have to catch covid and take you chances. You can';t do the right thing because you're scared the gubmint will do the wrong thing, and you can't get a better gubmint because you're scared the "other guy" is worse.

 

[Robert]

Flattening the curve was just a herd immunity strategy spread out. We are still in the curve - it's just flat. From here on out we relax the lockdown until cases build up a bit, then lock down again keeping the infection bubbling along at a low rate until 70-80% of people have had it.

I've been depressing my friends by saying this for months. The last time I went for a beer in a pub was early March, and these were the points of conversation, most depressing of which from me was, "We're probably all going to catch it eventually. I'm just hoping I live long enough without catching it until a vaccine is developed."
Pretty much every one of our respective countries has the same strategy - herd immunity - they just have different tactics for how to get there.
My opinion hasn't changed, to the point that whenever a pal I was out with that night calls me, his opening line is "you caught it yet"?

The only other ways out are:
1) a vaccine is found
2) a cure is found (so that patients can be treated without taking up hospital beds)
3) drive the virus to extinction
4) would be strict management. It would involve random surveilance, contact tracing and quarantine of people found to be infected.

Agreed. I don't see any of those as particularly likely in, at least not in the short term.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

Agreed. I don't see any of those as particularly likely in, at least not in the short term.

2 is probably the best bet. Hydroxychloroquine, while much maligned, has had positive results going back to the initial study in 2005 involving SARS. Given early with zinc it inhibits RNA replication. It's the zinc that does the magic, the hydroxychloroquine helps get the zinc ions across the cell membrane. Most of the recent studies have been retrospective studies and there have been no double blind zinc+hydroxyquinone studies - which was the initial mode of effect found in 2005. Given early it seems to have effect in reducing progression to ICU. Given in the ICU it has no significant effect at all - but neither do ventilators it seems. Keeping people off ventilators now seems to have better outcomes.
As we go on we start to understand the disease better and we are seeing changes in treatment protocols - the role of clotting and interactions with comorbidities are being better understood.
If we are mostly all doomed to catch it at some point we want that point to be as far in the future as possible. Just like it is better to catch certain cancers or HIV now than it was a few decades ago, it is better to catch COV-SARS-2 later rather than sooner.

 

[Robert]

If we are mostly all doomed to catch it at some point we want that point to be as far in the future as possible. Just like it is better to catch certain cancers or HIV now than it was a few decades ago, it is better to catch COV-SARS-2 later rather than sooner.

Yes, this has been my position from early on, and I've been fortunate enough to be able to keep myself relatively isolated without much financial burden (for now). Some friends of mine have been less fortunate but, either way, the aim for all of us is to last as long as possible without contracting the bastard.

2 is probably the best bet.

We had a couple of demonstrations in various parks around town today, mostly populated by the "Bill Gates is setting up 5G masts to spread Covid-19, even though Covid's a hoax, except that it was deliberately released by the Chinese to topple Trump and silence David Icke" mob. Despite my disdain for many of their opinions, the signs are there that disgruntlement is increasing so I'm hoping something positive happens soon.

 

[redrumloa]

Almost nobody in the west did that. China did it to a greater extent in Wuhan. And, yes, it would be everyone locked down for three weeks. You get two weeks to prepare, then everyone locks down. We could have gone closer to that and knocked it down more but you'd have to deal with the cheaters strictly. Instead we got a bunch of pussy footing half measures. Not too many politicians had the balls for that.

Don't go praising China, you know better. We don't know their real death toll, but we do know it is north of 21M. China's lock down, when they FINALLY did one, included things like welding families' doors shut and letting the families literally starve to death.

What you are proposing is nearly impossible for large countries like the US. But without getting into the weeds on the details, lets just look at it through rose colored glasses and pretend we could actually do it. The US shuts down entirely for 3 weeks. Military patrols the streets, shooting dead all venturing about including the homeless. They are also at both borders and every shore, shooting dead all illegals. After 3 weeks lets pretend there are zero cases left in the US.

The US opens back up, illegals start flooding back in, and travel between countries begin again. Infected people will make their way into the country immediately and infections would start spreading again.

It's actually the best idea but you demonstrate why America can't manage it. Instead, you'll have to catch covid and take you chances. You can';t do the right thing because you're scared the gubmint will do the wrong thing, and you can't get a better gubmint because you're scared the "other guy" is worse.

If it's so great why hasn't Canada done it? Why as a Canadian are you more concerned about the US? Either way, Georgia and Florida (minus the tri-county area I live and work in) are among the first states phasing in reopening. Georgia in particular has been overly aggressive in their opening efforts, with even trump and myself thinking it was a bad idea. Despite this, Florida and Georgia continue to see declining new cases and deaths.

I keep seeing left leaning people praising Cuomo in NY, despite his ridiculous actions on things like demanding nursing homes accept Covid patients.

 

[redrumloa]

Also Fluffy, I don't think you as a Canadian could grasp what would happen if it was announced a 3 week mandatory no leaving home. Fly down and stay in South Florida next time a major hurricane is bearing down. Try to get ANY basic supplies such as food and sanitary items AT ALL, let alone for 3 weeks. Hurricane preparation is supposed to be for 2 weeks, but a lot of people simply can't accommodate that due to empty shelves. That's for a storm with an unknown disruption time, and only affecting usually 2-3 counties at most. Resources are pulled from other areas of the country and diverted to the area in the hurricane path. Also, there are major disruptions in the supply chain right now due to the outbreak.

Now go from and unknown disruption to a known disruption of 3 weeks. Next go from a county or 2, to the ENTIRE US. What you are proposing would lead to absolute carnage and death at best. You aren't speaking from a position of experience. I've been through 10 major hurricanes.

-edit-
Speaking of Canada:

Mixed messages, frustration with lockdowns fuel some skepticism about pandemic



Not a whole lot of social distancing or masks there.

 

[redrumloa]

View attachment 1863

Ron DeSantis vs. Blue States: Florida Shines in Coronavirus Response Despite Media Scrutiny

DeSantis faced mounting pressure from politicians and media pundits, who warned that he waited too long to formally close his state. The governor, recognizing the unique profile of Florida, which varies vastly from region to region, largely allowed localities to determine their course of action.

Critics hit him hard. Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY) accused President Trump of “conveying an epic level of negligence and incompetence that is costing human lives” and threw DeSantis into the mix.

“And it’s not just Trump,” she said last month. “It is not just Trump. Look at DeSantis in Florida, who’s just calling for lockdowns today and Florida beaches have been packed.”

While DeSantis formally issued a stay-at-home order on April 1, that order occurred after he had already taken aggressive action against travelers from coronavirus hotspots, such as New Orleans and the New York Tri-State area. He imposed screenings at high traffic airports — which proved to be successful — and checkpoints along the Florida-Georgia border and Florida-Alabama border. He also issued a 14-day quarantine for individuals entering Florida from virus hotspots.

After weeks of intense media scrutiny, Florida is outshining its blue state counterparts as DeSantis’s highly criticized coronavirus response proves to be right.

This becomes even more evident when Florida is compared to a state like New York, whose governor the establishment media have heaped praise upon throughout the pandemic.

Florida — which tends to have an older, more vulnerable population — had 42,038 confirmed cases of the virus and 1,875 related deaths as of Friday morning. That represents a fraction of a percent of the 21 million-plus residents in the state. New York, with a population of more than eight million, has seen an excess of 343,000 confirmed cases of the virus and 22,170 deaths, despite the implementation of draconian lockdown orders.

“You look at some of the most draconian orders that have been issued in some of these states and compare Florida in terms of our hospitalizations per 100,000, in terms of our fatalities per 100,000,” DeSantis said during an April 28 meeting with the president.

“I mean you go from D.C., Maryland, New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Michigan, Indiana, Ohio, Illinois, you name it; Florida’s done better,” he continued, stressing that his remarks were not to be taken as a criticism of other states.

“But everyone in the media was saying Florida was going to be like New York or Italy, and that has not happened because we understood we have a big, diverse state,” he continued, defending his tailored approach.

“We understood the outbreak was not uniform throughout the state, and we had a tailored and measured approach that not only helped our numbers be way below what anyone predicted, but also did less damage to our state going forward,” he said.

“I had construction going on, the road projects. We did it in a safe way, and we did it. I think, in a way that is probably more sustainable over the long term. So I think people can go back and look at all the criticism and then look now,” he added, noting that hospitals never came near capacity, nor did the state run low on ventilators.

“We’ve had people in the hospital, but I’m now in a situation where I have less than 500 people in a state of 22 million on ventilators as of last night,” he said during the April 28 meeting.

Even the left-leaning Politico admitted that the Florida governor’s fine-tuned approach proved to be successful.

“First, let’s just come out and say it: DeSantis looks more right than those who criticized the Sunshine State’s coronavirus response,” the authors, Marc Caputo and Renuka Rayasam, noted:

According to the latest Florida figures, fewer than 2,000 have died, and around 43,000 have been infected. That’s a fraction of the dire predictions made for Florida when spring breakers swarmed the beaches, and those numbers are dwarfed by similarly sized New York, which has seen 12 times more deaths and nearly eight times more infections. (Check out POLITICO’s coronavirus tracker for more.) More people reportedly died in New York nursing homes than in all of Florida.

The authors even recognized what could be contributing to the polling disparity between the governors, as DeSantis appears to be faring worse than Cuomo.

“But most of the difference between DeSantis and Cuomo is due to politics. DeSantis governs a politically divided state. Cuomo is a scion of Democratic royalty in a deeply Democratic state,” Politico reported, also pointing out the media’s devotion to Cuomo — a perk the Florida governor does not tend to have:

Cuomo also has something else DeSantis doesn’t: a press that defers to him, one that preferred to cover “Florida Morons” at the beach (where it’s relatively hard to get infected) over New Yorkers riding cramped subway cars (where it’s easy to get infected). In fact, people can still ride the subways for most hours of the day in New York, but Miami Beach’s sands remain closed. Maybe things would be different if DeSantis had a brother who worked in cable news and interviewed him for a “sweet moment” in primetime.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

Don't go praising China, you know better.

I wrote it and didn't put any praise of China into it. That would be something that is in your own head. We won't get far when you can't read something honestly.

We don't know their real death toll, but we do know it is north of 21M. China's lock down, when they FINALLY did one, included things like welding families' doors shut and letting the families literally starve to death.

We? I don't think even you know this, but you apparently believe it. Evidence?

What you are proposing is nearly impossible for large countries like the US.

Maybe, but it wouldn't have been so impossible for the US of the 1950s.

The US opens back up, illegals start flooding back in, and travel between countries begin again. Infected people will make their way into the country immediately and infections would start spreading again.

Securing your perimeter is a given when there is a serious disease threat. Problem is, US citizens can't pick crops. Too weak, too slow, not willing. In another time they'd have been doing what had to be done.

If it's so great why hasn't Canada done it? Why as a Canadian are you more concerned about the US?

Because Canadian governments are pussies too. They did some things better like put out more money to encourage people to shutter businesses and support furloughed workers - but they wasted the time by not shutting down enough and by staying hands off on travel. What makes you think my opinion of what needed to have been done only applied to the US? Do you just assume that whenever someone says something in general it must just be about your country? I'm talking about practical methods to fight a contagious pathogen - things that have even been done before and we have a good idea about what works - but you seem to see it as a threat to your belief system.

 

[metalman]

Australian Study: COVID-19 'Exquisitely Adapted' for Human Cells

 

[redrumloa]

YouTube Auto Deletes Comments With Terms That Insult Chinese Communist Party

People using the platform discovered this week that certain terms cause a comment to delete just seconds after they are posted, implying that the removal must be automated and not based on user reports.

One such term is an old phrase from Taiwan’s martial law era that was used to describe Chinese Communists, “共匪”, which means “communist bandit.”

Taiwan News recreated the comment on multiple videos and confirmed that it “mysteriously and inexplicably disappears” within 15 seconds.



“The term is an anti-communist insult which was first coined by the Kuomintang in the early 20th Century and was used extensively by the Chiang Kai-shek (蔣介石) government during the martial law era in Taiwan. The Chinese character “共” (gong), is short for 共產主義 (gongchan zhuyi, communism), while the character “匪” means “bandit,” and was used extensively during China’s Warlord Era,” the Taiwan News report explains.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1260557177711968257

 

[redrumloa]

Elon Muskrat is officially red pilled.

Elon Musk tweets 'take the red pill' in another strange turn for the billionaire

https://twitter.com/x/status/1262076474565242880

The tweet comes as Musk, who once tweeted he is "openly moderate," has taken increasingly anti-regulatory tone as coronavirus has forced the shutdown of his Fremont factory. He has called stay-at-home orders "fascist," and last Monday said he was reopening his Fremont factory and was willing to be arrested to do so.

Already conservative voices are hailing the tweet as a sign that Musk, who tweeted that he supported Democratic candidate Andrew Yang in 2019, is joining their side.

 

[metalman]

Wuhan lab admits to having three live strains of bat coronavirus on site

 

[Robert]

The UK civil service official Twitter account briefly snapped today directly after Boris Johnson somewhat pathetically defended his personal aid for breaking lockdown rules:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1264602635887431694

 

[metalman]

How Network Science Surfaced 81 Potential COVID-19 Therapies

 

[ilwrath]

I'm surprised no one has posted about the latest Whitmer shitshow in Michigan. The latest stay-at-home rules change (they randomly change weekly, it seems, never in line with anything the CDC or science backs up) did allow power boating once again, but not travel to vacation homes in the area her husband had traveled to. While at the vacation home he wasn't supposed to travel to, he tried to get his boat launched. Ironically, he name-drops his wife while trying to get his boat moved up in the backlog that her random power boating ban last month created.

Purported Northern Michigan boat launch request fuels controversy for Whitmer

The owner of a Northern Michigan dock company said the governor's husband wanted his boat placed in the water before Memorial Day weekend

www.detroitnews.com

We were on the right side of things to close down relatively early, and cancelling school was the right call. And, we need to be careful about a lot of other activities. I live in a county with the 4th highest COVID concentration in the US (Wayne Co, MI). I get all that, and I support sensible science backed precautions. I'll even wear my damn uncomfortable mask because science objectively shows it cuts down your risk of infecting others. I GET IT. ALL OF IT.

But when our politicians act like this, it totally undermines everything sensible. They make it hard NOT to storm Lansing in protest. And THAT gives the impression that we're all wackos who want to open everything and don't believe that COVID is a problem. "See how many people are protesting!! Michigan needs to open everything!" NO, GODDAMIT! WE KNOW THIS ISN'T MAGICALLY OVER. WE NEED SENSIBLE RESTRICTIONS THAT ARE FOLLOWED BY EVERYONE.

Damn, I knew I'd miss Rick Snyder. Sorry for the rant. Too much stay-at-home. lol.

 

[Robert]

But when our politicians act like this, it totally undermines everything sensible.

Hypocrites.
Hypocrites everywhere.
The UK PM has publicly backed his special advisor who used the worst dog-ate-my-homework excuse yet.
"I drove 30 miles to a beauty spot with my wife and kid to TEST MY EYESIGHT because I thought Covid might have affected it. Yes, I drove to test my eyesight. The fact it was my wife's birthday is a complete coincidence and also why she refused to drive."