George Zimmerman found not guilty

kinda sad the NRA hung their hat on such a sack of shit... now were gonna lose our right to own guns... over this loser... damn... just damn...
 
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should be called the "i started some shit and got in way over my head law"... cuz that wasnt really self defense...
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
Don't make me say everything twice (or more). Please try to keep up. His history of whatever is not relevant to the day he was killed while NOT doing what he had done in his past.
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The problem is you don't seem to care what he actually did THAT NIGHT. You seem to be OK with him jumping someone, knocking him to the ground, bashing the back of his head into the sidewalk and reaching for his gun. You are just fine with this because you think Zimmerman is a jerk.

BTW yes someone's history does matter. Don't you think the fact that Trayvon bragged about assaulting a bus driver is relevant?
 
metalman said:
Trayvon was acting like a burglar that day, In his 911 call, Zimmerman cited Martin’s behavior. “It’s raining, and he’s just walking around” looking at houses.
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That's right, black people are so stupid they case the neighborhood when the neighborhood watch is 10 feet away.

We simply can't take everything Zimmerman says as fact. But even if it was, that still doesn't justify Zimmerman's actions.
 
redrumloa said:
The problem is you don't seem to care what he actually did THAT NIGHT. You seem to be OK with him jumping someone, knocking him to the ground, bashing the back of his head into the sidewalk and reaching for his gun. You are just fine with this because you think Zimmerman is a jerk.
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No one thinks a minor beating up an adult is acceptable. (I thought you cared about baby Jesus.) Likewise many don't see this as a legit reason to kill someone.

Remember the case where the experts said Zimmerman's injuries were insignificant and non-life threatening. Look at the pictures there's some blood but not a lot. Especially for a head injury.
 
redrumloa said:
BTW yes someone's history does matter. Don't you think the fact that Trayvon bragged about assaulting a bus driver is relevant?
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No - because if Zimmerman hadn't followed him against advice (and if he ever got training it's against block watch/neighbourhood watch training) and got out of his truck and confronted him, i.e if he had behaved appropriately none of this would have happened. Zimmerman put himself in that position, he had a choice to make, do the right thing or do the wrong thing and he chose.

Saying Trayvon deserved to die or that he was asking for it or that Zimmerman is not at fault is all about picking the part of the narrative you want for the result you want to get. Some of those places aren't reasonable. That would be like pleading the defence, for example, that Zimmerman didn't kill Trayvon, the bullet did - or that Trayvon killed himself by losing all his blood. Both of those are patently silly because the bullet is not responsible for what it does, it is put in motion by the charge in the cartridge burning and it is directed by the barrel of the gun. Can't blame the charge or the gun because they are also not responsible for their actions. We have to go a step back.

The first time we get to someone who might be responsible we have a struggle for control of a gun. When you have a struggle for one weapon you have two people who are legitimately in fear for their lives. If Trayvon had got control of the gun he could equally have plead self defence. At the point the weapon is discovered both people can claim a right to use it because both people are in danger from that weapon if the other has control of it.

How did they come to that point? Trayvon attacked George, but why? It can be argued that it was wrong and it likely was, in and of itself, but if he were alive I'm sure he could once again claim self defence or that he was afraid Zimmerman was going to continue following him and attack him some time in the near future. That's something that he or his lawyer could plead but we will never hear him do so for obvious reasons. If Trayvon were still alive Zimmerman could have had him convicted for assault but he is not alive and his transgression has been eclipsed by a greater transgression.

But who is responsible for initiating that interaction? How did it come to be that Trayvon could attack George and why did he feel it necessary? There is a person involved who should have known not to start that confrontation and who was advised not to have that confrontation but who chose to have that confrontation - a person who was senior to the other person and therefore had more culpability both by his supposed neighbourhood watch role (where he acted against best practices so he is professionally negligent) and simply being the wiser and more mature/responsible party.

That is where the knot in the thread of culpability binds the tightest. Go back further and things become less relevant. What Trayvon did the day before or the week before has no baring (and should have no baring) on whether or not George should have followed him and nothing George did the day before has baring either except in that it is in contradiction to good sense, best practices and direct advise given at the time by a dispatcher. He's as culpable as if he had downed a couple of bottles of vodka and then driven over a toddler. He can claim he was too out of his skin to be responsible when the accident happened but crime evolves out of the choices made before the fact when the outcome can be reasonably foreseen - which is why he was told not to confront Trayvon and why he would have been trained not to if he watch role was officially sanctioned.

George Zimmerman directly initiated the sequence of events that resulted in the death of Trayvon Martin.

Everything else is irrelevant.
 
faethor said:
Remember the case where the experts said Zimmerman's injuries were insignificant and non-life threatening. Look at the pictures there's some blood but not a lot. Especially for a head injury.
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Ya, he'd never make it as a hockey player!
 
metalman said:
you can follow them though

It wasn't like Trayvon actually lived there

Trayvon was only in Sanford because (a) his father was dating a woman who lived there and (b) Trayvon had been suspended from his high school 240 miles away in Miami-Dade County. (c) Trayvon’s mother kicked her son out of her house because he was so impossibly unruly.
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And Zimmerman had issues with authority as he was charged for assaulting a police officer and resisting arrest in 2005 (later dropped when he entered a pre-trial diversion program). Lucky for the cop he assaulted that Zimmerman wasn't packing back then. Although I'm pretty certain if he stood his ground against a cop he'd be on death row right now (or just shot dead, one of the two).
 
robert l. bentham said:
should be called the "i started some shit and got in way over my head law"... cuz that wasnt really self defense...
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I won't defend the "way over his head" comment because frankly, EITHER MAN could have avoided the incident. HOWEVER, that's absolutely irrelevant to the point he's getting his head bashed against the pavement. By very definition, that is both "in fear for his life" and grounds for shooting in "self defense".

I understand that if you are scared of guns, you won't like that, but that is the law as it's currently written. The State however didn't argue the "should have just driven off instead of being a dumbass defense", which in this case is irrelevant.

Point of fact, (I know the testimony was one-sided out of necessity), but it's not like Zimmerman got out of his car and said "hey you! {BANG!}... It was only after he was lying on the ground having his head bashed against the pavement that Martin was shot.

I agree that this was a needless situation all around. I also agree this is an example of how the Media (and the Administration) are helping to divide this country, but regardless of how he got there, killing your assailant in a fight by any means available where you are in fear for your life is self-defense in most states.

Wayne
 
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