Riot in London last night

Glaucus said:
And how do you explain the 2008 riots in Athens? Greece never took part of Afghanistan, Iraq or even Kosovo. They certainly set the example of non-violence as they defied NATO requests for violence. And yet, Athens burned in 2008, 2009 and 2010.

Sorry, but I think you're over simplifying things here. It sounds a lot like those right wing nuts who blame violence on video games.
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Considering violence inspired by video games, where no direct relation has been found, in contrast to raising up children with much spanking IIRC.
 
Glaucus said:
Sorry, but I think you're over simplifying things here. It sounds a lot like those right wing nuts who blame violence on video games.
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One correction, the push for censorship has almost always come from the left (see Tipper Gore and the PMRC).
 
Sorry, but I think you're over simplifying things here. It sounds a lot like those right wing nuts who blame violence on video games.
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The impression I got from the video wasn't that Fluffy was blaming the riots on state violence, rather that it could be a factor.
Whether it is or not would be difficult to measure but the idea seems reasonable enough to me.
 
Robert said:
Whether it is or not would be difficult to measure but the idea seems reasonable enough to me.
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It's certainly a factor in direct and indirect ways but it's also hugely ironic - the state and the people who benefit most from the state love to denigrate those at the bottom just as the slave owners did and convinced themselves that slaves loved being slaves and were only capable of being slaves with no ability to live as civilized people. The slave owners would wage wars over slavery, have slaves punished brutally for transgressions etc, but when slaves rebelled they were savages.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
It's certainly a factor
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Yeah, my main point was that I didn't watch your video and think, "Fluffy is blaming this squarely on state violence."

in direct and indirect ways
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Indirect certainly but I need a wee bit more convincing about the direct part.

but it's also hugely ironic
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Indeed. Most don't see it though.
The amount of messages I've seen from people, willing the police to crack the skulls of "thugs" and celebrating footage of them doing so, even when it's not clear what the recipient has done to deserve it, is another example of the layers of irony draped over the whole situation.
 
redrumloa said:
One correction, the push for censorship has almost always come from the left (see Tipper Gore and the PMRC).
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Still using the old left right where it doesn't fit. This is an Authoritarian/Libertarian debate not a Left/Right.

The Tipper thing was ridiculous, of course, but James Baker's wife was a co-founder of PMRC and he is a Pappy Bush man.
 
@Fluffy:

The BBC News just announced that Cameron blamed* the riots on, "a culture the glorifies violence," without a hint of irony but reinforcing your point.

*The talking head said this: I haven't seen a direct quote from Call-Me-Dave.
 
Burqas and Blackberries are out. The UK government considers banning face coverings and blocking network communications if they think someones doing something naughty.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
Burqas and Blackberries are out. The UK government considers banning face coverings and blocking network communications if they think someones doing something naughty.
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Under current regulation, the police have the power to arrest anyone who is wearing a mask or face covering if they refuse to remove it when asked. It's part of the legislation dealing with the requiring people to identify themselves.

As for the lock-down of GSM communication.. That too is covered under the civil contingencies act iirc. I cannot see that one flying for anything less than a full blown civil war or major terrorist incident and in those circumstances the reason is simple - the polices own "radio" system, Airwaves, uses GSM. From a purely practical point of view it would also block people phoning for ambulances etc, so I can't see that getting past the lords.

As far as allowing the police to bust a few heads, yes, that'll stop the desire for a good few rioters to continue. However it is a sticking plaster as the issues behind it need addressing and unfortunately the repairs to undo the underlying causes that have allowed the social underclass to develop will likely take as long if not longer to fix as the did to implement.
 
More Mash:
crestfallen thieves had raided the store hoping for a PS3 or Nintendo bounty but arrived home to find they had stolen a box containing 300 unpainted Orcs and a board game called Beyond the Ultraforest of Kwang.

Martin Bishop, 19, said: "I am returning The Runering of Fangor.

"It includes two dice, each with about 40 sides and instructions on how to gain the trust of a 'cloud wizard'.

"And yet somehow I'm the {bleep} bad guy."
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Banning cell phones is a dumb idea. It would be better to infiltrate their networks then to disrupt them. As for the facial coverings, I think that only makes sense.
 
Robert said:
"And yet somehow I'm the {bleep} bad guy."
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Glaucus said:
Banning cell phones is a dumb idea. It would be better to infiltrate their networks then to disrupt them. As for the facial coverings, I think that only makes sense.
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OMG! They've no brains, and thats what they're after but they're too brainless to know that.
That means it's the ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE! :eek: Flee!
 
Back on a more serious note:
IPCC 'may have misled' over death

The police watchdog has admitted it may have misled journalists into believing police shooting victim Mark Duggan fired at officers before he was killed.

Mr Duggan, 29, was shot by officers last Thursday in Tottenham.

His death sparked the initial riots in London which were followed by disorder in other English cities.

The Independent Police Complaints Commission later released a statement to make it clear that Mr Duggan did not fire a gun at police.

Ballistic tests found that a bullet which lodged itself in one officer's radio was police issue.

It was reported by many media outlets at the time that a police officer had been shot before Mr Duggan was killed.
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That won't help the impression many have that the "Independent" part of their name is a little hollow.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14510329
 
It said the IPCC's first statement made no reference to shots fired at police.

But it said: "However, having reviewed the information the IPCC received and gave out during the very early hours of the unfolding incident, before any documentation had been received, it seems possible that we may have verbally led journalists to believe that shots were exchanged, as this was consistent with early information we received that an officer had been shot and taken to hospital.
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Emphasis added. Until the evidence is in and processed, they had no business talking to the press.

Also cancels out much of the validity the previous post I made about the daily mail.

I wonder if many of their perceived failings is simply down to the above. With each new piece of evidence that shows up, an entirely new light is cast on the whole incident. Perhaps if they kept to dishing out bland but correct statements and then released their findings only once all the evidence had been processed and collated, they might be able to stop the spread of claims of lying by so many.

A symptom of the 24hr news world we live in perhaps?
 
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