An interesting idea concerning the identity of God

That's why I'm an Apathist.

Pretty much my atheist position. If there are such things as gods, or even if there is only one, then it should show up at some point in a noticeable way. Should it do that then I will start to care about what exactly it is - but until it does, it isn't.

I am an atheist in the same way that I am an a-Santa-ist. I acknowledge that there is such an idea as Santa and that the idea of Santa has an effect on people, and that the idea of Santa is used to make winter more fun for kids and to give adults an excuse to buy them gifts and to make them more mysterious etc. etc. but that doesn't change the fact that there is no Santa.

However, the non-existence of Santa is not something I care about - I'm apathetic about it. However, if there was a segment of the population that was trying to gain political power in my country so that it could dictate that I must live my life in a Santa believing way and live up to their interpretation of what that means or face legal consequences then I care a very great deal.
 
Perfect example why I consider myself agnostic and not atheist. Atheism itself is a religion.
Wrong. Atheism is nothing more then not believing in god. It is a Greek word that literally means "without god". It implies NO other beliefs or disbelief. You do not need to believe in the theory of evolution or the big bang theory to be an atheist. People who don't believe in the Loch Ness Monster don't automatically belong to some religion that denounces the Loch Ness Monster. Next person to say atheism is a religion gets a boot to the head!
 
Wrong. Atheism is nothing more then not believing in god. It is a Greek word that literally means "without god". It implies NO other beliefs or disbelief. You do not need to believe in the theory of evolution or the big bang theory to be an atheist. People who don't believe in the Loch Ness Monster don't automatically belong to some religion that denounces the Loch Ness Monster. Next person to say atheism is a religion gets a boot to the head!

Bit of a misrepresentation of what was said, really. In the abstract:

1) Person A believes X exists but there is concrete, irrefutable proof that X does not, in fact exist. To pick a contrary position to them is not a matter of belief, it's simply observing a fact and a logical conclusion.

2) Person A believes X exists, but there's no real evidence. However, there's also no real evidence to the contrary, either but it seems unlikely. To pick a contrary position to them is a matter of opinion (based on your interpretation of the evidence, or lack thereof). However, without conclusive proof, it ultimately boils down to belief.

I don't think the various ideas floating around as to what God is are so easy to pidgeon-hole. The general idea of an entity somehow responsible for the existence of the physical universe but not constrained by it's rules and thus not really "testable" leaves you with scenario 2. It's possible, but perhaps (to an atheist) very unlikely. However, without adopting a mantle of intellectual dishonesty, it can't be said that it's impossible. Therefore, "disbelief in X" is directly equivalent to "belief in ~X".

I think it's entirely fair and proper to regard disbelief in the existence of God as "belief in the non-existence of God", no different to it's counterpart other than on which side of the fence it's on.

Suppose X was your Loch Ness Monster. I'm sure we can agree that it's extremely unlikely (but not impossible) that it exists. Thus belief in the non-existence of the Loch Ness Monster seems an entirely reasonable position and I would say doesn't cause you to belong to the "Loch Ness Denouncers".

However, suppose that belief in the non-existence of the Loch Ness Monster was something you believed very strongly, based your world view around, shaped the way you approached things, the circles you move in and was something you evangelised. It's harder to draw a line under now and say this is nothing like a religion, because frankly, by that point it's very much like a religion.

I've known a fair few Atheists who fall into that latter category. If it waddles like a duck and quacks like a duck...
 
However, suppose that belief in the non-existence of the Loch Ness Monster was something you believed very strongly, based your world view around, shaped the way you approached things, the circles you move in and was something you evangelised. It's harder to draw a line under now and say this is nothing like a religion, because frankly, by that point it's very much like a religion.

I've known a fair few Atheists who fall into that latter category. If it waddles like a duck and quacks like a duck...

"A fair few Atheists," does not equate to atheism itself.*

The assertion to which Mike responded was:
Atheism itself is a religion.

This is simply an incorrect soundbite that gets bandied about and is demonstrably a pile of shite, hence the image I posted in my original response to the claim.

*Even if it did, I'd still argue the religion point but that's another discussion.
 
Matt Delahunty is God! :p

On a more serious note, I rarely tire of listening to him.
he sure is interesting.
and while he thinks about stuff I really don't spend any time worrying over, I'm grateful that someone like him IS thinking about those details. People like him really add gravitas to the fact that people don't just get to the point of atheism on some whim.
We may not get there because we are as well thought out as Matt, but most of us know SOMETHING is wrong - and we reject it.
 
oh, crap.....I'll look for it, maybe they moved it or something
 
BTW, re: title, not sure what the original thread has to do with the IDENTITY of God, as opposed to the intrinsic disdain for Atheists.
 
BTW, re: title, not sure what the original thread has to do with the IDENTITY of God, as opposed to the intrinsic disdain for Atheists.

True, true, but the direction of the discussion does tie in with the thesis of the video that the religious will react as if they have been personally rejected because the non-believer has dismissed the believer by proxy since god is a projection of the believer's own ego.
 
BTW, re: title, not sure what the original thread has to do with the IDENTITY of God, as opposed to the intrinsic disdain for Atheists.

I think the main reason for any disdain for atheists in 2011 comes from the atheists disdain for people of faith.
 
different camera angle, but I think this is the same talk
 
I think the main reason for any disdain for atheists in 2011 comes from the atheists disdain for people of faith.
if by "disdain for people of faith" you mean atheists just can't bring themselves to take seriously fairy tales, well, I guess so.
whatever "disdain" I may have is ENTIRELY a function of having some wacko nun treat me as if I was incapable of using my intellect. so, she started the disdain. I can't respect someone who thinks I HAVE to believe without question every single piece of bullshit that falls out of her mouth.

I can't respect anyone who feels I HAVE to live in constant misery, paranoia and fear of some spook who is busy spying on me and marking down all my "misdeeds". AND will hold me accountable for them forever. And, don't forget, when I was told this crap I was 7 or thereabouts. Please tell me what sort of horrible sin I could possibly have come up with at that age? Were they comparing me with Nazi's???

I also feel that telling CHILDREN all those horrible, violent stories about "saints" being tortured and killed is nothing short of child abuse. I felt so THEN and while I wasn't aware of the term, I know I was being abused. It sickened me in the extreme. And I wasn't some delicate flower.

I find all that Evil. I think my 'disdain' is completely justified.
 
I've known a fair few Atheists who fall into that latter category. If it waddles like a duck and quacks like a duck...
If you insist on splitting hairs to that degree I would simply point out that atheism is about not believing in god and has nothing to do with believing there is no god.
 
Here's another speaker from FreeOK. This guy was a Christian until 2008 and he talks about how his life was and how he eventually woke up from it and talks about the sorts of things that Christians refuse to see about their faith.
 
Having attended a local (Huntsville) "Freethinkers" meeting, I can only say that free thought is pretty damned far from their agenda.

I can only go by the local event (and these videos), but to me, it seems to be a radical militant Atheist organization whose only goal is promoting "Anti-Christianity" and finding ways to justify themselves against the assault of believers.

To me, it was pretty much just as offensive to sit in a Freethinkers meeting as it would have been to sit in a Bible Study group. "Free Thought" -- to me -- would indicate tolerance and understanding. Not "those who believe are wrong".

If I were to gather, it just seemed more of a militant Anti-Christian supper club. I on the other hand might think strong believers are quite delusional, but I don't care what they believe as long as I'm not continually assaulted with it.

Wayne
 
Having attended a local (Huntsville) "Freethinkers" meeting, I can only say that free thought is pretty damned far from their agenda.

I think it's more like what cecilia alluded to earlier about why people join groups. In the US (because I don't remember these groups in the UK where non belief was much more normal) most of the atheists were believers at some point and fell out with their communities when they lost their belief so in many ways these "Free Thought" groups are support groups.

As for being Anti-Christian, that is just because most of them were Christian and they generally live in highly Christian parts of the country. In other parts of the world you get Freethinkers who are anti-Muslim, or anti-Hindu or whatever the predominant local religion is.
 
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