An interesting idea concerning the identity of God

Wayne said:
Having attended a local (Huntsville) "Freethinkers" meeting,
Click to expand...

Interesting. What made you go along? Is it a regular thing?
I don't even know if there is such a thing in Glasgow. (Or even the whole of Scotland for that matter.)
Doubt I'd go along even if there was.

To me, it was pretty much just as offensive to sit in a Freethinkers meeting as it would have been to sit in a Bible Study group. "Free Thought" -- to me -- would indicate tolerance and understanding. Not "those who believe are wrong".
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's a shame.
Still, perhaps you could have pointed this out? Might have started a bit of debate.
If it was as you describe, there were probably others there who it made uncomfortable. Sometimes all it takes is one person to say, "I say, chaps, this is a little over the top. How about a little Free-Thought?" (Perhaps not in those exact words. :p)

Having said that, I've never felt the need to attend any "atheist group" but it's possible that those who do may feel that they *have* been continually assaulted by Christianity and the group itself is a reaction to it.
That might go someway to explaining the attitudes you encountered.
If the force-fed Christianity I experienced at school had continued into my adult, student and then working lives, I'd possibly be as stridently anti-Christian and reactionary as you describe.
 
Wayne said:
Having attended a local (Huntsville) "Freethinkers" meeting, I can only say that free thought is pretty damned far from their agenda.

I can only go by the local event (and these videos), but to me, it seems to be a radical militant Atheist organization whose only goal is promoting "Anti-Christianity" and finding ways to justify themselves against the assault of believers.

To me, it was pretty much just as offensive to sit in a Freethinkers meeting as it would have been to sit in a Bible Study group. "Free Thought" -- to me -- would indicate tolerance and understanding. Not "those who believe are wrong".

If I were to gather, it just seemed more of a militant Anti-Christian supper club. I on the other hand might think strong believers are quite delusional, but I don't care what they believe as long as I'm not continually assaulted with it.

Wayne
Click to expand...

You prove the point I was trying to make, thank you.
 
redrumloa said:
You prove the point I was trying to make, thank you.
Click to expand...

The point you were trying to make was:
Atheism itself is religion
Click to expand...

Wayne's experience does not prove that at all, nor could it ever, since the premise is nonsense.

The fact that some atheists may act as though atheism is their religion is no more proof that atheism itself is religion than claiming "Catholicism itself is child buggery," or "Islam itself is suicide bombing."

Or perhaps you were trying to make the point that *some* atheists appear to treat atheism as a religion?
If you were, I would wholeheartedly agree with you but suggest a slight modification in language, i.e. cut out the sweeping generalisations.
 
Wayne said:
Having attended a local (Huntsville) "Freethinkers" meeting, I can only say that free thought is pretty damned far from their agenda.

I can only go by the local event (and these videos), but to me, it seems to be a radical militant Atheist organization whose only goal is promoting "Anti-Christianity" and finding ways to justify themselves against the assault of believers.

To me, it was pretty much just as offensive to sit in a Freethinkers meeting as it would have been to sit in a Bible Study group. "Free Thought" -- to me -- would indicate tolerance and understanding. Not "those who believe are wrong".

If I were to gather, it just seemed more of a militant Anti-Christian supper club. I on the other hand might think strong believers are quite delusional, but I don't care what they believe as long as I'm not continually assaulted with it.

Wayne
Click to expand...
If I saw people being this "Anti" anything, I'd leave too.
when I was starting my career I would attended lots of science fiction conventions (to sell my stuff). I met any number of people who were completely geeky - William Shatner has on occasion made a bit of fun of such people. They act as if being socially inept is a positive thing. Mostly because they are socially inept and hate everyone who would point that out to them.

While i wouldn't say "fandom" is a religion, it's a wacky bunch of people. Like Amiga fans, they have that US vs THEM mentality.

And they gather to make themselves feel better about being kicked out of the general population. I got sick of them after a while.
Unless an atheist group is doing something to respect separation of church and state, I can't see myself being part of it. bashing people just for the heck of it get boring real fast.
 
Robert said:
The fact that some atheists may act as though atheism is their religion is no more proof that atheism itself is religion than claiming "Catholicism itself is child buggery,"
Click to expand...

I thought it was well established among most Whyzzat members that indeed Catholicism itself is child buggery
;)

Or perhaps you were trying to make the point that *some* atheists appear to treat atheism as a religion?
If you were, I would wholeheartedly agree with you but suggest a slight modification in language, i.e. cut out the sweeping generalisations.
Click to expand...

Some atheists indeed, some being either a majority or at least the vocal majority. The video shown here is a perfect example of atheists being condescending towards all people of faith and wanting to belittle and evangelize.

I'm sure as some have suggested the very vocal atheists probably feel burned or rejected themselves. This is probably the same reason some people turn to so called satanism or devil worship (not the same thing), which is just as silly IMHO.

I personally had what could be described as a bad, traumatic experience going to catholic school growing up to the point I purposely got myself expelled. Even still I don't feel necessary to belittle everyone who wants to follow a religion.
 
I think some of the grandstanding atheists -- maybe not Fluffy, but some -- are motivated by an unhealthy need to feel intellectually superior to the common man.

That same pathological desire afflicts many on the political left as well. Their leftist positioning allows them to assess themselves as more intelligent, sophisticated, peace-loving, just and caring than members of of the vulgar herd. That's why they won't give it up, no matter how many times you expose their ideas are illogical and unworkable.
 
You're most likely correct, that some atheists are like that. But at the same time many religionists feel morally superior over atheists and take every effort to make that well known. There are bad apples in every group.
 
@shsnj:

I think some of the grandstanding theists -- maybe not shsnj, but some -- are motivated by an unhealthy need to feel intellectually superior to the common man.

That same pathological desire afflicts many on the political right as well. Their rightist positioning allows them to assess themselves as more intelligent, sophisticated, peace-loving, just and caring than members of of the vulgar herd. That's why they won't give it up, no matter how many times you expose their ideas are illogical and unworkable.

Oh, and Welcome to Whyzzat. :p
 
For those that were interested - The Matt Dillahunty segments has been posted (re-posted??) to TheThinkingAtheist channel on youtube.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
Here's another speaker from FreeOK. This guy was a Christian until 2008 and he talks about how his life was and how he eventually woke up from it and talks about the sorts of things that Christians refuse to see about their faith.
Click to expand...

He makes his points well.
And you can tell that speaker used to be a preacher. ;)
 
shsnj said:
I think some of the grandstanding atheists -- maybe not Fluffy, but some -- are motivated by an unhealthy need to feel intellectually superior to the common man.

That same pathological desire afflicts many on the political left as well. Their leftist positioning allows them to assess themselves as more intelligent, sophisticated, peace-loving, just and caring than members of of the vulgar herd. That's why they won't give it up, no matter how many times you expose their ideas are illogical and unworkable.
Click to expand...

The flip side is that many religious people seem proud to claim to be "humble" and "simple" and say stuff like "I might not no much 'bout nothin' but..." at which point they then deliver what they believe to be a pearl of wisdom. Many on the right actually look down on higher education because educated and/or intelligent and/or knowledgeable people are "elitist". That's not to say that there aren't any elite right wingers, but they work hard to hide their education and smarts if they want to be electable.

It is not, therefore, the atheist or the leftist that believes themselves to be more intelligent or sophisticated but the religious and the right that paint them that way and use that to denigrate them. Perhaps there is an intellectual envy or maybe a fear of intellect among the religious and the right or perhaps they are just people who approach life and the world on a more emotional level. Perhaps it's a left brain/right brain thing and never the two shall meet - or perhaps it's just not nice to have your fantasies shattered by sitting down and doing the actual maths. There are a lot of people out there chasing free energy and perpetual motion and they just don't want to hear about thermodynamics, for example.
 
Let me be very clear about something.

I understand the need for organized religion. Human beings NEED to feel that there's something bigger out there than just themselves. I don't understand the fervent need for strict, divisive beliefs and strict... what's the word.. umm. Movie title... um... DOGMA.. Yeah, that's it.. Dogma. Anyway, to each their own -- regardless of their need to believe in space men or altruistic grandpa figures.

Aside from it's origins in establishing populace control, wealth, and power, religion should be about striving to be better. Not only as a people, but as a human race. A sort of "support group for being good" to encourage societal accepted behavior if you will. I really have no problems with that -- as an IDEAL.

The problem that I have with organized religion as a whole is exactly that. "Organized". Organized by whom? Human beings? Therein lies the conundrum. How do you have a religion organized by human beings which -- by the very definition established within their own religion -- are fundamentally flawed (ie sinners, hypocrites, greedy, etcetera)?

No matter how I cut the big stinky ball of cheese known as organized religion, I just cannot get farther than my personal Saint George Carlin's first commandment of "be good to one another". If we as human beings baked through all the other bullshit in organized religion and stuck to that one simple rule, I'd be just fine with it.

Unfortunately, "be good to one another" doesn't keep the Church stocked with golden idolatry.
 
It's also worth remembering that, for those of us in the UK, it was only a few, short years ago that blasphemy laws were repealed.
Attempts were made to use these laws to ban "The Life of Brian" (successfully banned by many local councils and in several US states) and, more recently, "Jerry Springer: The Opera".

Both of these productions are (partly) satires on religion. Both have brightened up my life a little but I would never have been allowed to see either of them, had the religious activists over here had their way.

As an aside, quite a few posters on this thread would probably find The Life of Brian far too condescending, superior, hateful of God and preachy.

Did the Pythons have to ridicule organised religion? - debatable but thank God they did.
 
I saw The Life of Brian when is came out in the theater. LOVED it!
I sat in the dark theater knowing full well how the nuns would be shitting in their pants at this film and LOVED it even more.

and for those who think science takes the awe and wonder out of life get this:

 
This made me smile but it also reminded me of this thread:
 
cecilia said:
and for those who think science takes the awe and wonder out of life get this:
Click to expand...

Some wonderful images in that clip. Wish I'd had access to footage like that the other night. :cool:
 

assholes like perry simply will never understand this...
 
@cecilia:

Great video.

assholes like perry simply will never understand this...
Click to expand...

Any four year old child could understand that video.
Anyone who doesn't understand that is either deliberately refusing to acknowledge it or hopelessly daft.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top