Average Candian is richer than the Average American

metalman said:
Banks don't loan to startups, startups require equity investments
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And usually somebody else's equity. I've seen startups done with a persons own equity and that is pretty brave and committed - the one I know of is a brewery. I've seen others start up with almost no equity but sweat (and the willingness to be a little flexible where the law is concerned) that have over time worked out - some production companies around town and a clothing company that I know of. The tech companies (games and telecommunications) that I know of personally used other people's equity to start up - venture capital companies and people with extra money to take a chance on an idea. Those are the kinds of thing where you will need to put a bunch of people to working on a project for two years before you have anything to sell for which you need a couple of million or more to get going and it will usually be someone else's equity. Those kind of investors know that not everything they back will work out but they play the odds.
 
metalman said:
If the employer hires the wrong workers the business could fail, an employer takes a risk everytime he hires someone
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An employee has no security either. He can be let go at any time. If his employer messes up the employee is as out of work as if he had messed up too. Meanwhile the employee is compensated for his work at a rate less than the value of his work - the difference going to the employer.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
Meanwhile the employee is compensated for his work at a rate less than the value of his work - the difference going to the employer.
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A certain skill set has a certain value to the employer, based on productivity

If the costs of labor exceed productivity, there will be layoffs or plant closings

Different employers may have different productivity values for the same skills
 
metalman said:
The false assumption your making is that the successful were guaranteed to be so, by a helpful government.
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That isn't it at all. You haven't a clue what this is about - it's really simple. If Steve Jobs was the only person alive in the universe he would never ever have been able to create the iPhone and it wouldn't be because of a lack of a market. One person is not able, in a lifetime, to create from scratch even one functioning iPhone. It cannot be done.

If businesses had to create their own roads to get to markets, if they had to create their own ships and ports, if they had to dig their own raw materials out of the ground nothing would ever get done - it's too complicated, too much. That's why we have division of labour. Steve was lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time joining the world of the elites who get to tell others what to do but without those others actually doing stuff nothing would ever happened. Somebody has to do the actual making of things because the guys at the top can't.

Every time I write a line of code that goes into a product that is one more part of the product that the CEO and the board members didn't make - because they either don't have the time, or, quite likely, don't know how. Sure, I could be replaced - but so could they. There are millions of people with the "talents" that they have who just didn't have the luck to end up where they did.
 
metalman said:
A certain skill set has a certain value to the employer, based on productivity

If the costs of labor exceed productivity, there will be layoffs or plant closings

Different employers may have different productivity values for the same skills
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i.e. if you can play hungry workers off of each other you can get down to the point where workers work just to survive. On the other hand, if workers get together and agree not to undercut each other that is evil because now the workers get the value of their work instead of the employer.

You are preaching class warfare, of course. You just want the elites to win, not the working class.
 
metalman said:
A certain skill set has a certain value to the employer, based on productivity
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If I made something for someone for $50 and they sold it to someone else for $100 then the value of the item is $100 so I lost $50 because I made if for someone who told me the value was $50. Now that I know that the value was higher than was stated the next time he comes by to ask for one I should quote him a higher price.

The true "genius" of the people at the top is that they spend their time matching people who are willing to work for less to buyers who are willing to pay more (while at the same time, preventing us from finding out about this) - and pocketing the difference. That's not the same thing as "making things".
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
If I made something for someone for $50 and they sold it to someone else for $100 then the value of the item is $100 so I lost $50 because I made if for someone who told me the value was $50. Now that I know that the value was higher than was stated the next time he comes by to ask for one I should quote him a higher price.
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You should just cut out the middleman and build millions and sell them all yourself at $99 then
 
There's a difference between building something yourself and being "primarily responsible".
 
metalman said:
You should just cut out the middleman and build millions and sell them all yourself at $99 then
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You should but if you can't make it all on your own then you need a middle man or at least other people which means you can't capture the full value yourself. Try to make even one million of a thing with saleable value in a lifetime completely by yourself.
 
metalman said:
:lol:

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50% of people are of sub median intelligence and you only need slightly more than that to win an election. Cheap psychological tricks often trump facts. Look at the Kennedy quote in there. The irony is that these ads are being funded by giant virtual monopolies who eat small businesses for breakfast, lunch and dinner (and snack on them between meals) and they claim to be FOR small business. Slaves vote for extra lashes and less food so that the owner can make more money.
 
faethor said:
I don't think you or Republicans realize what a fail of 'self man man' your meme truly is.
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They don't. Therefore it works for them. Think how many Americans think that America is great because it was picked to be great by a magic being in the sky. It doesn't matter that it's stupid and false, people who believe that can be manipulated easily by people who claim that magic sky being gave them authority. Just because a lie is a lie doesn't mean it doesn't have power (or give power to the liar).
 
metalman said:
:lol:
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The 'Free Enterprise System' is called 'System' because it contains many more individuals that contribute than just 1 man. There is no such thing as a 'self-made man'. Go back and view the infographic I posted and you should quickly figure out why such an animal could never truly exist.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
They don't. Therefore it works for them. Think how many Americans think that America is great because it was picked to be great by a magic being in the sky. It doesn't matter that it's stupid and false, people who believe that can be manipulated easily by people who claim that magic sky being gave them authority. Just because a lie is a lie doesn't mean it doesn't have power (or give power to the liar).
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"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross." - Sinclair Lewis, 1935
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
You should but if you can't make it all on your own then you need a middle man or at least other people which means you can't capture the full value yourself. Try to make even one million of a thing with saleable value in a lifetime completely by yourself.
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So then he earned his share of the transaction
 
faethor said:
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross." - Sinclair Lewis, 1935
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It is a peculiarity of the development of American fascism that at the present stage it comes forward principally in the guise of an opposition to fascism, which it accuses of being an "un-American" trend imported from abroad. --Georgi Dimitrov, Seventh World Congress of the Communist International, 1935

"if fascism came to America it would come wrapped in the flag and whistling "The Star Spangled Banner."
--Harrison Evans Salisbury 1971

If fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in the flag, waving the cross, and preaching free markets (trans. economic imperialism.) -- rshelton 1999

If fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a Orwellian slogan and quoted by progressives as "the truth"
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
If defrauding is earning. I guess now I see why you like the elites so much.
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If the best price you can is only $50 how are you being defrauded?
That's how your hero George Soros makes his money
 
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